From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 06:07:28 +0300 Message-ID: <32f6a2ce-e30f-059f-dcd4-233d666a10a1@yandex.ru> References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <86blno9yle.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87d0845msg.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h7xgjasw.fsf@yahoo.com> <875zdwjais.fsf@yahoo.com> <6a198677-41b6-4dbd-39d0-2b01550d53cf@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="73299"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 Cc: me@enzu.ru, joseph.h.garvin@gmail.com, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, ndame@protonmail.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 20 05:08:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQMn1-000Ixo-2y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:08:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56500 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQMn0-00019Y-1h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:08:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52476 helo=eggs1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQMmV-0000kb-Qi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:07:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs1p.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQMmV-0000L7-C8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:07:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::435]:37023) by eggs1p.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQMmT-0000J4-Fl; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:07:33 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id k1so10308370wrx.4; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:07:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7BbnOLhDt5Ka9TiH169vu4jNFGZ22pVfMDdWZlY7v74=; b=esfyKqHPYxZj609fVJPp4F5z8B8EzUXGHOCfy7fwv2HCimUq7ca5apP6WXNAHKLR/A 6fbU9Q6483OrnWngKN22DyBeREEAwGaHyhRS+68KCesnijHx0w8beOE/q8K/fZX2RV3v Rb8I0kcry2KmrUsKourLgI/coqWG/DC5xYobSw6Q/FRcalSiJSCKlFnffxT4yeva1oEw 6Rctc8eHM0r5hK2efptmThE7QencSVKatNuEJ3bpgyF7TtmJhTXpJUAPyKyJ+WZiQvjl GmHdSlk2as5pFtYMZfGcha8Wkq1LtUbI4QTmsveuE1ldSUh6TpNQfFIJjyEVzNekpSwW bcsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7BbnOLhDt5Ka9TiH169vu4jNFGZ22pVfMDdWZlY7v74=; b=ZmKqX41UnErYkozH12eo+ga+F8pl6StJoVU8m1GQT+/nDlf95FrLBFz9smLyCQUxYv Fc1ib6uADBs2WG/3Lt9HSVlzUk2uNZdik9SVvHOMqa/HE6IDPB/5vCrHhgJXdYqBH4a9 Z0WrLa5fg0bOG31O3osH2fpqAvq2GVrprnPxF0/8Kvj3vinL5WEIISJuXsAQEAP52YkE gfHGdIZQHGu3IM0wYY2Udw8xLrHJPVVOp9txs4EhPBx6FvwoGBlFzyJ6EzomNlXmsqLs UK0Nzqd9HovsxLs8jKAoaJZ2JWpCQ9ximeSJrnWG9ZmVOEZ7ZFvxGMNjNE6YwCcH5XBe 3A/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Puau7mwEPY1kA7w4LiEV3fZDjAHxPbevAKTz/SYB6qlQI2iSi8mV msGFz5gJilvhlYVRt9w+Vbw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLJfPYNc/j5hrJnP/09BepSgkyAWEvnq8MmYMTfWGUSa5FwezLWHj4aqD1V8xJFyg1OdKfVGw== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4ccb:: with SMTP id c11mr3721888wrt.122.1587352051348; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q1sm1800067wrn.70.2020.04.19.20.07.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:07:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::435; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x435.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs1p.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::435 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247353 Archived-At: On 20.04.2020 05:19, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > Perhaps we could focus on adding missing features to Emacs' display > > > engine (such as the aformentioned fancy graphics, and also some other > > > important features that RMS has mentioned, such as variable-pitch > > > indentation). > > > I'm pretty sure neither "fancy graphics" inside file buffers, nor > > variable-pitch indentation are the reason for VS Code's popularity. > > That statement may be correct, but you've changed the topic. Did I? > You're talking specifically about VS Code, which is a "source code > editor". What I had in mind, regarding variable-pitch text, was word > processing. The topic was Emacs's popularity, AFAICT. It's already a good source code editor, and yet its share among programmers is < 5%. As a word processor, it's a lot less capable, and adding the two features you mentioned above won't bring us much closer to that goal, compared to established options. And there are existing Free programs that do this better already (like LibreOffice Writer). We certainly should enable all kinds of uses, but given the limited resources, I think we should play to our strengths first.