From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Sandbox subr-x? (was: `thunk-let'?) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 15:54:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <322d40f7-de9a-4841-99ec-2b92fec438d7@default> References: <87infp9z6j.fsf@web.de> <87zi90eehg.fsf@web.de> <87o9ocd6s4.fsf@web.de> <83zi7wr6jc.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1z0csxa.fsf_-_@web.de> <83k1yzqshk.fsf@gnu.org> <87vaijwclj.fsf@web.de> <8ae533ea-f8fe-4b65-a6cc-8ce332d94d22@default> <87efp7vyny.fsf_-_@web.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1510271713 26436 195.159.176.226 (9 Nov 2017 23:55:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 23:55:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?B?Q2zpbWVudCBQaXQtQ2xhdWRlbA==?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 10 00:55:09 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eCwf5-0006Qp-MI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2017 00:55:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39518 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eCwf8-0004YZ-08 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 18:55:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59837) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eCwez-0004Y9-1N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 18:55:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eCweu-0004fm-2w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 18:55:01 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:32174) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eCwet-0004e7-Px for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 18:54:56 -0500 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id vA9NsqvC028054 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2017 23:54:52 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vA9NspAj001713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2017 23:54:51 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vA9NsnbR008316; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 23:54:50 GMT In-Reply-To: <87efp7vyny.fsf_-_@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4600.0 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220015 Archived-At: > > I questioned only the purpose of having a library, apparently > > `subr.el', >=20 > (I think you mean subr-x.) Yes, I do; sorry. > > whose _purpose_ is to act as a sort of sandbox of stuff that, for > > whatever reason, someone doesn't consider quite ready for primetime. >=20 > I don't have a strong opinion about it. But I think the approach works: > interested people use this stuff - privately, but also in Emacs - and > the stuff develops. Stuff that proved useful can later be moved to > other places. OTOH, if you think about things that happened there (like > `when-let' and `if-let' having been obsoleted and replaced by `if-let*', > `when-let*' and `and-let*', not long after that had been added), it is > not too bad that not every Emacs user and package developer had already > used it. If it works, it works. I can't argue much with that. I think that if Emacs dev thinks a sandbox is helpful then it should just use GNU ELPA, or a specific `sandbox' part of GNU ELPA, for that, instead of a single file, `subr-x.el' that is part of the distributed Emacs-Lisp code. Better to put stuff being experimented with in files with names related to that stuff, whether temporary or not. Having a single=20 sack of anythings named `subr-x.el' is not a great idea. > But maybe subr-x is also a symptom of limited manpower: if we had hordes > of people volunteering writing and updating documentation, we would > probably be less reluctant to fully integrate and document this stuff in > the first place. That's not my position, at least. I don't think the current state of having a single `subr-x.el' sandbox delivered as part of Emacs follows from having limited manpower or would be finessed by having more manpower. (And something half-developed can also be half-documented...)