From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again. Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 21:26:33 +0300 Message-ID: <3201a9fe-de19-d553-0be1-d379f182fd47@yandex.ru> References: <87o8ls1vvq.fsf@posteo.net> <20200926145302.sjrwjrguf5ialc25@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3064"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: James Lu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus , "Philip K." 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That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256491 Archived-At: On 26.09.2020 17:53, Ergus wrote: > BUT, on the other hand, it is true that Emacs makes some simple things > more complex/weird and keep them like that just because "it is the emacs > way" or "not to bother old users" or "we shouldn't do that just because > others do" or "our way is better just 90% more complex because it covers > this very weird and infrequent use case". Very much yes. It's very discouraging to see the constant push-back against even the small and reasonable changes. It feels like everybody who is not content with Emacs remaining a fringe quirky editor simply has to leave (*), sooner or later. And thus the development team self-selects in favor of individuals who don't care much about the programs around Emacs (and being at least somewhat compatible with them in the UI), or general usability concerns. (*) The core development, at least. Or they go and create their own sub-community (like "starter packs", or the lsp-mode project), contributing very little outside of it because of the much higher friction that entails.