From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Peter Dyballa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: Re: 23.0.60; describe-char gives wrong information Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:06:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3167E3EC-A084-4229-9531-AC3E5BDF69BB@Freenet.DE> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199797618 13580 80.91.229.12 (8 Jan 2008 13:06:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 13:06:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org To: Kenichi Handa Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 08 14:07:19 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JCEAi-000441-ET for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:07:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JCEAL-0003Wl-C4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:49 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JCEAG-0003V5-4i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JCEAE-0003TF-EU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JCEAE-0003TA-9y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:42 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JCEAD-0003e2-U7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JCEAD-00052t-HY for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:41 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JCEAA-0003cm-7g for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mout0.freenet.de ([195.4.92.90]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JCEA9-0003cA-P3 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 08:06:38 -0500 Original-Received: from [195.4.92.23] (helo=13.mx.freenet.de) by mout0.freenet.de with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JCEA5-0001D3-Sr; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:06:34 +0100 Original-Received: from fccd6.f.ppp-pool.de ([195.4.204.214]:56663 helo=[192.168.1.2]) by 13.mx.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID peter_dyballa@freenet.de) (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (port 25) (Exim 4.68 #1) id 1JCEA5-0003Ol-KJ; Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:06:33 +0100 In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86566 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:20548 Archived-At: Am 08.01.2008 um 06:55 schrieb Kenichi Handa: >> Character U+039F can't hardly belong to a Chinese encoding. It's a >> Greek character, taken off an ISO 8859-7 font. > > Actuallyy many CJK charsets contain Greek letters. As you > are in de_DE locale, the order of iso-8859-7 and gb18030 in > charset list is arbitrary. Try C-x C-m l greek RET C-u C-x > =3D. iso-8859-7 should be preferred. Hello! I actually intended to emphasise that I was living and working in an =20 UTF-8 area. And of course I thought it's absurd ordering a Greek =20 letter into a Chinese encoding. To me it seems to belong more to =20 German(y), since one of their last kings came from Bavaria. In my understanding de_DE.UTF-8 says I'm coming from a German =20 location in an UTF-8 world, outside any proprietary CJK encodings. > >> Its psili modifier or >> COMBINING COMMA ABOVE is at U+0313, outside any Chinese encoding, too >> (although GB18030-2000 defines both as 0xA6AF and as 0x8130BE35). >> Isn't Unicode, as in the name "Unicode Emacs," more >> appropriate? > > For the moment, I don't have a good idea about how to order > character sets that are outside of users locale. Perhaps, > if the character doesn't belong to any of: > (get-language-info current-language-environment 'charset) > the "preferred charset" line should not be showned. This returns in my UTF-8 *scratch* buffer an absurd (iso-8859-1) I never set a language-environment because I had found with others =20 that this is bringing me back into the world of 7 bit encodings =20 (maybe also 8 bit). > > By the way, in emacs-unicode-2, the default fontset is not > yet tuned well for Unicode. For instance, for Latin, > currently only these fonts are registered: > > "ISO8859-1" "ISO8859-2" "ISO8859-3" "ISO8859-4" "ISO8859-9" > "ISO8859-10" "ISO8859-13" "ISO8859-14" "ISO8859-15" > "VISCII1.1-1" Why is ISO 8859-16 missing? > > >> Similarly GNU Emacs 23.0.60 handles =E1=BD=88 (i.e. one letter = Omicron =20 >> with >> psili): > >> character: =E1=BD=88 (8008, #o17510, #x1f48) >> preferred charset: gb18030 (GB18030) >> code point: 0x81369132 >> syntax: w which means: word >> category: g:Greek >> buffer code: #xE1 #xBD #x88 >> file code: #xE1 #xBD #x88 (encoded by coding system = utf-8-=20 >> unix) >> display: by this font (glyph code) >> -monotype-arial unicode = ms-medium-r-normal--10-98-74-74-p-99- >> gb18030.2000-0 (#x9132) > [...] >> And although it claims taking GREEK CAPITAL LETTER OMICRON WITH PSILI >> at U+1F48 off Arial Unicode MS, which has this glyph, it uses an open >> box to display it. Because U+1F48 is not defined in GB18030? The byte >> sequence (code point) 0x81369132 is not defined in GB18030-2000. > > If that font doesn't contain that character, with the above > change, that font won't be used. Arial Unicode has U+1F48. It does not have it in a gb18030.2000-0 =20 font encoding, because this code point is not defined in =20 GB18030-2000. So one of the first mistakes is to assume U+1F48 is =20 defined in GB18030-2000 and another one is to use a partial font =20 encoding like gb18030.2000-0 instead of a more complete and in an =20 UTF-8 environment more appropriate iso10646-1 font encoding. -- Greetings Pete Math illiteracy affects 7 out of every 5 Americans.