From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 14:24:56 +0300 Message-ID: <2e630dc7-ba1d-e4c9-74b3-4da976db1e82@yandex.ru> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="70551"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, pcr910303@icloud.com, eliz@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 18 13:26:41 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jadup-000IGD-KP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 13:26:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55878 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaduo-00055h-Jl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 07:26:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jadtH-0002sk-Ff for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 07:25:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x444.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::444]:35989) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jadtG-0008TH-Ab; Mon, 18 May 2020 07:25:03 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x444.google.com with SMTP id k13so9306698wrx.3; Mon, 18 May 2020 04:25:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a6qqBTRrSwIk1zRbUKLooUu5bcXemTahmh9FN5eTGzc=; b=FNrlOVMi9YuiE6Ug+XsOrJYULftjhnEDNsijzLIeFmFDc0vx8mvsOiyzr9EMKLfyD7 tMRW+mfUQi7QgEtyHGt9adHrJVVQT9AvYQEo5dhSvm3oLNsrY58t93XUYRQRbGUQNvcD DLtcUKGoocvNSlXN7xY69MXw4JqRmYMeRU9d9LBYJALYuR8Ds9WTCghnoYJxSnWd6X+b QODmrKkFKFiJJpfVIQPerfqU0LbkT6vDisXM7hoUa6iivGChnpI+U/66hSgTXdBVPdj9 5NN+j1eZ6s1HsjxJQg5nLQu4gVsppj0AvzHs1SASFBcw4LLwFeYFaCQyrxwPxYDpa8Kx 0KEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=a6qqBTRrSwIk1zRbUKLooUu5bcXemTahmh9FN5eTGzc=; b=QdFqgILYhzPS3z8rCODyrzGniRLs6n0s5zWWyKQIJMHzfBuuZ0GjM+UlADr7znSImg 90CqejBofLrCovfyxfORrJ/1enu4M2GorbT3ZctzdQpnuDSPbfPZs87Jf8CwWqDb+CI3 3dMj5TR5OuHDEoqOUTAh7QtKndhxA3ZmCKC5XV39NKCDssdpQRN7qv+WRAPxp3IHaDN2 EPbsNQGuQ9tYXm6VfDEsNi93ZBE4uCvMlOrpyKCQR5AUaZjMU7JUTxkba8WwCbViFtL2 f2ZnpM1HVnGy/ZO8dn7IDzIW/OU8IV/9poRTqpGWScKdz50YhWviLyieNKgNX6FW7MeV fVbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532PK7F8B0sRj3BdTRacyxIcafBLTZLWjVG6iBaiOWFJf9SUGfe6 XG8S0CJF0JwQLQGyYsJXNYAAbKXG X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxpJ/yop20KzfqP2jQQ1tlG+vLnmlhSypzAyGIYNRXnGcniBwtFDbH+7fPQzL1h85gmaXd4iw== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4f81:: with SMTP id d1mr20329189wru.95.1589801099447; Mon, 18 May 2020 04:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b2sm18439668wrm.30.2020.05.18.04.24.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 May 2020 04:24:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::444; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x444.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250729 Archived-At: On 18.05.2020 06:49, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > I would like to point out, as an author of several packages, that in my > > experience having a package in ELPA is _better_ than having it in the core. > > Better in which sense? Do you mean, better for you in maintaining the > package? As explained in another email: better discoverability. Better at helping the users notice the package. Simply including a file in the Emacs distro doesn't do much. > Having the package in the core makes it possible to maintain it in > sync with Emacs releases. Having it in GNU ELPA makes it possible to > release improvements in the package that work for old Emacs releases. > I think that either one can be valuable in some cases. The latter is definitely useful. It's also a boon (with :core packages) when you want a release a new version, the last Emacs release was a month ago, and it's a year or two until the next one. The former... there are certainly cases when a package is good to have in the core (the obvious ones are when we want to turn it on by default). As far as maintaining them in sync, do you mean the advantage is the package can use new APIs, hooks, etc, that are added at the same time the change in the package is made? That can certainly be a boon, but the very same thing makes keeping the package work with older Emacs more difficult. The packages that require new APIS are almost always new packages themselves. So it might help to let them "incubate" inside Emacs, but after that the advantages of staying in the core are less obvious (aside from keeping compatibility, etc). And such packages can still be developed externally, perhaps with somewhat higher overhead. IME most packages depend on stable interfaces, though.