From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:18:41 +0300 Message-ID: <2ce73f33-8675-211a-9eb7-ea63de1a161e@yandex.ru> References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <87blamp5hy.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21732"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 To: Philip Kaludercic , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 11 02:19:56 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lVNpU-0005UH-Qe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 02:19:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47386 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVNpT-0004dk-TZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 20:19:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37840) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVNoN-0004ET-6O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 20:18:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]:44012) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVNoL-0003vf-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 20:18:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id e7so10744774edu.10 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 17:18:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Wu+YEujaAZhYFJdexjDxLMd30LXljfOGZ05T+lQiZqE=; b=IM6vkypqGkzYzuIJuiAWHJSSJn8y+NWGerk3JPT7dI8v2bKqU69qhZ9rCriXSoeZ54 ktJNCd+xJly3ZTuGHspnBu7Qy2FCEHIAMu+yY73YMCCYZouah9oO3j/wCtGZSYSJc+GM H15sMvlRRs0xHvoqkipEGzIeg8ny4+/Ku3hWOhauJDi4rks1PZKivefr2yguOt4C+cr7 WweERmjTh+SbF4SNFHXF4NkamT4wlfKl9DRwdowny2EibZk4xwBxd29wUA83QvYw8SNQ cHMetzPhKsCmGbeh1QHO+hmlvf65KdZ0H0QTejF0HhrW36VYcFtQoWUaXJj0qHGLz3SX mt1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Wu+YEujaAZhYFJdexjDxLMd30LXljfOGZ05T+lQiZqE=; b=pEYw8ubBXBWGO6gLHzceAsZY7EHzZBqhkZ9uqrCh+Bt1kwMlDZazt5Ho3d6S+LmKYP /TSiGAtRPQVCXpSVHbk2ME0D81WJzLOcPV7GUOqGF89I7vgHWLLXXFgKauvDS+yHhlPK m218w6rPcrUBvUR22mdbtAikFjAmgNpbuAzm3tmPORI6ib4DG7Y5aCJ900nsE/KogS6m nEgyhjPbVW9c1NUH1Dy846nBY/Zjh/00M6Jo+ml04GKTizikU2sC7MIY4omXKEDv6R+x XqgCrJwPUUEyQTOi62CpJPNGfV4R3xMoOQYtynQ5LeMOFRLulVlCMQEQ6Gzjaw+WdcCs zfSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531VMU6kFwRTksZGbcgCNH2dA1yOfleoMx2ZujGe93PGyQG2RQjZ 5irfY+95iEqU4yNC1PGw/tnbUrqBxVo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwL0A/xs9jlDYSkEj6v17B4BBZTu0nNLIlZXcnqSUSaZQ8iRcP64k1kQPI/8je0TyqxB0SLHQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:142:: with SMTP id s2mr23394185edu.2.1618100323627; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 17:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id cq26sm3858014edb.60.2021.04.10.17.18.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 10 Apr 2021 17:18:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87blamp5hy.fsf@posteo.net> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::531; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x531.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267849 Archived-At: On 10.04.2021 17:40, Philip Kaludercic wrote: >> It might therefore be necessary to actually implement a "selecting-read" >> function, that could be used more or less like completing-read, but that >> provides a better default UI not based around completing text but >> actually selecting objects/items. > I attached a primitive version of selecting-read to this message. The UI > is horridly primitive, but the basic idea should be understandable. Hi Philip, I've tried this new code, and it seems to work: the function pops a buffer which responds to RET, which in turn returns the appropriate item to the caller. I'm not sure how to discuss or critique it. Some thoughts: - It uses data structures quite different from what completing-read uses. That's pretty inconvenient, and requires a mental switch. I'd rather the two functions (or some future versions of them) were more similar in shape, yet (obviously) different in behavior. - It's not pretty/comfortable to use (yet?). A lot of discussion and decisions might come from trying reaching the state where people like it. Speaking of what I see in selecting-read-mode-map, in particular (define-key map (kbd "/") #'selecting-read-narrow) , it invokes the image of a more ponderous, explicit interaction than the snappy selection UIs I've used and liked in the past. > Because I'm not just now primarily concerned with what completing-read might look like, it doesn't do "automatic narrowing" like Helm or Ivy. It doesn't do quick cycling with TAB either, though.