From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "ken manheimer" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: "scroll-fringe" Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:36:06 -0400 Message-ID: <2cd46e7f0806291036j4e80ab1clbe7be87cbb25f7f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <2cd46e7f0806291019q7ab8cb9fh2f5dff9c9d542f2c@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1214760998 4190 80.91.229.12 (29 Jun 2008 17:36:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:36:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 29 19:37:21 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KD0pp-00068Q-S9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:37:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45670 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KD0oz-0003ts-Gr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:36:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KD0ot-0003td-Cr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:36:11 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KD0oq-0003tE-AT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:36:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54262 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KD0oq-0003sx-4W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:36:08 -0400 Original-Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.177]:3688) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KD0op-00016y-Lf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:36:07 -0400 Original-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m34so1340133wag.10 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:36:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Whlv9JhpxodXbZQlXpo7PozJ3BOoXbyb53KTooe2EyA=; b=CzZkguhov45yblj9WIbQiS4uhvAVS0lNMRU/53FmCvZ0eNOqq5xoAuKBNdjlZ2AuEN E3cfxZjOY7O0x1K68y9UZR/bngTGfBHDYplDPIRPHXXnDFhRUgW3SuTnICINOhSSICCj lr689PGhW1y35MvMM+i6lpxmJbmilye8+g36M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=xN3tdSSCk90xXRPSoG4efZJZyv0HCIMhcgdZGWDsLqgkenAhF9rXYHve5duHPwwxyF gTkDlfXkTM7DQrKtii/MgaL3Xjj+epAUZtpEwo3E7ROSaB0at4SHPme8qz3pYKeqoIai s73z9w7a8vWHKKOuW0zZk5optLdVW5YDDtHYA= Original-Received: by 10.114.77.1 with SMTP id z1mr3293597waa.8.1214760966679; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.114.201.14 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:36:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2cd46e7f0806291019q7ab8cb9fh2f5dff9c9d542f2c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100143 Archived-At: i tend to run emacs with minimal decorations, and would *love* to see an option to use the fringes for some of the scrollbar functionality. i am not close enough to the details of the display, scrollbars, or fringe to implement it myself, but i think this idea would be a winning UI improvement, if anyone is interested. i've been thinking for a while about the usefulness of the scrollbar versus its space consumption and visual incongruity, and recently turned the scrollbar off. the only thing i miss is the opportunity to see at a glance the proportion of the buffer that the window covers, and it seems like that would not at all be a hard thing to implement in the fringes, given the right knowledge. a couple of frames customization options to turn on "fringe buffer proportion indicators", and i would be quite happy! it might not be that hard to implement grab-and-drag scrolling with the fringe indicators, as well. i don't really care about that - find scrollbar dragging much less useful than keyboard navigation - but it would make replacement of the scrollbar so much more viable as an option for more people that it could help justify the invested work. i would be perfectly happy if only the proportion indicators were implemented, however. the frame is really so much more tidy and compact without the darn scrollbars! by way of context, i run emacs without buffer tabs, menu bar, or even window manager decorations. i happen to find the fringe indicators proportioned quite well for their purpose, particularly with their size and style configurability. i kept the scrollbar until recently only for the sake of buffer/window proportion, and recently decided it just wasn't important enough for the space consumed and the visual discrepancy between the scroll bars with the rest of the frame. (i also run my frames with white text on black background, which probably only increases the scrollbar's incongruity.) -- ken http://myriadicity.net