From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Ken Manheimer" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CVS is the `released version' Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:24:39 -0400 Message-ID: <2cd46e7f0705101124r72000f78xdf05d18ca815ca57@mail.gmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178821495 12177 80.91.229.12 (10 May 2007 18:24:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:24:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: bob@rattlesnake.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 10 20:24:53 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HmDJm-0007QJ-AA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 20:24:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmDR6-0000l8-MY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:32:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HmDR4-0000kx-Bi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:32:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HmDR2-0000kc-AY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:32:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HmDR2-0000kZ-68 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:32:16 -0400 Original-Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.230]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HmDJg-0008R7-UD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2007 14:24:41 -0400 Original-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s17so649737wxc for ; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:24:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=tbywyqwqA3Owc41vCmybNnjFHJo0M8/X4u4Fmi4UAW3VXvoih9Y9kE8RMJuRyk9H8ltHxHAw7OWR85EV0RVthytKsshvFbrLdEOzizrMRue0yluiJBNlOv8zzYd9xnWz23AlCfkVRg9sERw9LQT8U9psZ0XW9TNugPbGXqm3Awo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=eSZ/Yyl/3Jhyp1gBpq6m0m4l6Dg/1pjv/fYQh9/2AVRILTcyK6jH3SECrF2LliFXqMjkoaTYX7OQFQjw4o6tJQgdIxBHPWBrQ6BzxM+YtxR22d0vXj8CcOoCcfBMy8VJPgyi0e2xsDmHnC6WGPbD+QLqzKRuCiv5HTlT9EDe/wI= Original-Received: by 10.100.196.3 with SMTP id t3mr1598818anf.1178821479962; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.100.9.13 with HTTP; Thu, 10 May 2007 11:24:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 (Google crawlbot) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70775 Archived-At: On 5/9/07, Robert J. Chassell wrote: > Remember, for many people, but not for many moderns, CVS provides the > `released version' of GNU Emacs. It is the prime version used by > those who contribute. It is not a binary that cannot be changed. > Once in a while, development needs to be frozen while bugs are fixed. > > Since more and more people are coming to think of or are forced to use > big numbered releases and eschew the daily releases, they view a delay > between one big numbered release and another as bad. But those who > enjoy daily releases hardly notice. > > I suspect we are seeing a conflict between cultures: on the one hand, > those who install a new release of GNU Emacs every day or almost every > day and, on the other hand, those who look for big numbered releases, > such as that from Emacs 21 to Emacs 22. > > The world is tending towards those who look for big numbered releases > even though most contributions are small. actually, incremental updates to end users are a *burgeoning* trend, in certain circles. "cloud" software, where you run a client that's obtained from the network, delivers updates any time the managers decide to release revisions. this is not as exotic as it sounds - we're talking web applications like gmail, yahoo maps, even open office and firefox have a self-update mode. (i just opened my firefox-based google notebook to discover a new look that incorporates some features which address some of my former peeves.) that self-update mode even applies to whole operating systems, where the os vendor can convince their customers it has to be that way - can you say, "security updates"?, and stealthy dissemination of property-rights restrictions? there is a diffference with CVS updates that is much more important than push-pull, however. the network-released incremental updates are managed as deliberate, measured releases, and not just the set of any updates. it takes attention - time and discretion - to distinguish the development frontier from the release frontier, though both can be incremental. a "stable"-ish branch in a code versioning arrangement may be a closer aproximation, certainly more so than the trunk. i like the idea of an incremental release mechanism for emacs. but it needs to be done right - i think xemacs network-based packages update system doesn't quite do it, though it might be a step in the right direction. -- ken http://myriadicity.net