From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: frame-local variables weirdness Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:57:41 -0700 Message-ID: <2bfd4e060710181857y28d55d90o3146527e33e419b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <858x65lh4m.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <2bfd4e060710171029g30a62313naf31c5363d85d6ca@mail.gmail.com> <85fy09e9nj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1192759076 2897 80.91.229.12 (19 Oct 2007 01:57:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:57:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, Stefan Monnier , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "David Kastrup" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 19 03:57:55 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Iih7Z-0004PV-4N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 03:57:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iih7R-0007Ca-PA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:57:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Iih7P-0007CV-Bi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:57:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Iih7O-0007CJ-U3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:57:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iih7O-0007CG-OY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:57:42 -0400 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Iih7O-0005ah-6y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:57:42 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so331512nfh for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:57:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=SIKtQYxdbBwUlDRvP6c6wNAmigM8Uh2/jqoFx0G10KU=; b=UPE/XMk28N4loNyQrq/46i9A2PxKPt1AvNddAbniNyCcriGLLWKIDaX0BnlVdXAZhq6+LhKFUqNc7UB4BhanwI8cTy7GhcRrl48PQnkPnyTTfVrsXcwr3+5oM1FJbwiAZLpoDJYRyUfYy3QG0U/v5BRO14EkI2RRuroHCvu7EjI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=X9ukMP6SX6cK1tqKU/CeQ17OLHDbWih2Ep3SpsdHcyuEcc6UoCNI/ILCg/KCRpQX92yd6jPQunazH/3GSCP9r2JmBE951UrNKEAfYQsOpgpitcbPbAvfAJEmjMoRPvrwTCsV/lO5InWs5QC9smWC258xysRC1KbXDwdfaeEYSr4= Original-Received: by 10.86.70.8 with SMTP id s8mr951194fga.1192759061243; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.86.26.15 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:57:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <85fy09e9nj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 306f61a6c519d2f2 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81178 Archived-At: On 10/17/07, David Kastrup wrote: > "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > > David Kastrup may have an informative opinion, since he found > > XEmacs's glyph (~ Emacs image) API, uh, "annoying" (and even its > > author admits it's probably excessively complex and detailed). But > > I'm not sure whether he objects to the idea of such an API, or > > merely to XEmacs's implementation in glyphs. > > You should use quote marks only around things you actually quote. I > don't think I called them "annoying". Sorry. Quotation marks are generally used to mark variant usage of text, actual quotes being only a special case. Specifically, the `uh, "annoying"' form is quite commonly used to imply "the actual words he used are unrepeatable in polite company". > specifiers in XEmacs. But the main problem in my book with the open > XEmacs data structures actually is that there is no reasonably > complete and actually employed API for accessing them. So one needs > to acquire an understanding of the internal structure of them if one > hopes to understand existing code, and mostly also for writing code of > one's own. Mostly one doesn't. A buffer-local can be emulated by a specifier by using (set-specifier buffer-local-variable local-value (current-buffer)) to modify it, and accessing the current buffer's value with (specifier-instance buffer-local-variable) I don't recall why the arcane incantation I recommended to you was needed in your application. It may be that some version of specifier-instance would have been satisfactory but I didn't understand your need well enough to give a more precise answer. The situation is very similar to working with menus or Emacs-style keymaps. There are some conceptually simple tasks that the API makes unnecessarily hard to do.