From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Qiantan Hong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing - Wikipedia reference Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:53:43 +0000 Message-ID: <2E89B4B4-AAA9-472F-AAFC-7505C2A98FD2@mit.edu> References: <83eemji6e8.fsf@gnu.org> <20201001141144.GO4797@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201001160136.chwmpollk4d3qc2e@Ergus> <20201004175447.GG15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <87362tvnil.fsf@gmail.com> <20201004194815.GH15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <11EB917D-3276-4D34-8DCD-2336E8062950@mit.edu> <20201005040245.GJ15516@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201005084441.GB4453@protected.rcdrun.com> <87zh50lhda.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pn5vgqsk.fsf@red-bean.com> <79924DB1-2613-4AF6-982C-39157CF3ED9B@mit.edu> <8C2D2AED-0AA8-48AC-ADB2-826177141F2F@gmail.com> <40B06E9F-A6D6-4F9B-8E2B-7DC55D16D0F7@mit.edu> <18458910-E6A1-4867-9936-FFA50E3E72D1@gmail.com> <4AB5904E-A646-4A17-B78C-B4E0271E28B4@mit.edu> <87imbjx0bm.fsf@tanaka.verona.se> <80512E57-D3BA-4F02-A835-DEE434278736@mit.edu> <83blh84o8w.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6ws4mns.fsf@gnu.org> <4C6C49B0-68A8-402C-9BC0-1FB11BD8A9F3@mit.edu> <838scc41sw.fsf@gnu.org> <38DBEF04-B639-4744-B285-20C59E34C6BF@mit.edu> <834kmz4iet.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_401CC783-0818-4F19-92C6-16F7214ABDD4"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28306"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Yuan Fu , Fermin , Jean Louis , Caio Henrique , Ergus , "joakim@verona.se" , Noam Postavsky , Karl Fogel , Stefan Monnier , Joe Corneli , emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 18:54:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kS15n-0007Cy-6S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 18:54:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47334 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kS15m-0003rs-5s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 12:54:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47400) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kS156-0003Pu-Vv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 12:53:53 -0400 Original-Received: from outgoing-exchange-3.mit.edu ([18.9.28.13]:50742) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kS154-0000dp-Sp; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 12:53:52 -0400 Original-Received: from w92exedge4.exchange.mit.edu (W92EXEDGE4.EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU [18.7.73.16]) by outgoing-exchange-3.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 09CGrhT7007192; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 12:53:44 -0400 Original-Received: from w92expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.74.70) by w92exedge4.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.73.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 12:53:38 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by w92expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.74.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 12:53:43 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 12:53:43 -0400 Thread-Topic: Question collaborative editing - Wikipedia reference Thread-Index: AQHWnhdR4LjU6k9HIUyZcJcFcadSFqmPiGSAgANsSQD//8X424AAREiA///FQeKAAFRAAIAAKaXSgABSv4CAAHoub4AAaFuA In-Reply-To: <834kmz4iet.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [18.18.245.17] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.9.28.13; envelope-from=qhong@mit.edu; helo=outgoing-exchange-3.mit.edu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/12 12:53:49 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows 7 (Websense crawler) X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257481 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_401CC783-0818-4F19-92C6-16F7214ABDD4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The problem with this is it will require considering conflict resolution for every combination of command (which is basically impossible) and it=E2=80=99s hard to even just guarantee eventual = consistency. One simple example to illustrate this: * Level 1 ** Level 2 some text User 1 pressed TAB (to invoke org-cycle) on ** Level 2, user 2 delete ** Level 2 in the same time. If we just send (command,location) over the wire, in the end user 1 will end up having a folded =E2=80=9Csome text=E2=80=9D without =E2=80=9C**level 2=E2=80=9D heading, and user1 will have level 1 = folded. With a overlay-synchronization approach, I was able to support org-cycle with eventual consistency guarantee in 1 line (just add to the filter).=20 (The synchronization implementation itself is about 100 lines). I was thinking that my way of filtering might not be general enough but now I think there=E2=80=99s probably very few use cases for this =E2=80= =94 org-cycle is a useful one =E2=80=94 so I don=E2=80=99t need to worry = much about filtering customization. What do others think? > On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:40 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Qiantan Hong >> CC: Joe Corneli , >> "joakim@verona.se" >> , Yuan Fu , >> Fermin , Jean Louis , >> Caio Henrique , Ergus >> , >> Noam Postavsky , Karl Fogel >> , >> Stefan Monnier , >> emacs-devel >> >> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 03:22:55 +0000 >>=20 >> E.g. when two users are editing the same org document, >> in some cases they may want two replica to fold the same sections. >> =E2=80=94 I always find myself wanting this feature to make sure both >> are focusing on the same parts of the document, and at least seeing >> the same thing. >=20 > This seems to indicate you want the capability of sending commands, > not their results. The command will then be executed on the remote, > and will produce the desired effects. --Apple-Mail=_401CC783-0818-4F19-92C6-16F7214ABDD4 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCA70w ggO5MIIDIqADAgECAhAaql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjEwHhcNMjAwODAzMDEyNDIz WhcNMjEwODAxMDEyNDIzWjCBoTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFjAUBgNVBAgTDU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMx LjAsBgNVBAoTJU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMgSW5zdGl0dXRlIG9mIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kxFTATBgNVBAsT DENsaWVudCBDQSB2MTEVMBMGA1UEAxMMUWlhbnRhbiBIb25nMRwwGgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg1xaG9u Z0BNSVQuRURVMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAylUlEQdK4BSXKzoGh6As CKN/TpLmC0kjhPdxUKMj1/86Xl6GDCla4h95uISDOWVAKdu3cIlA8m9zRLT2jNEIkt1DVpXP6c9h y8RRyfJm0qlrvr6tsHi5AmO4Li6s2dEGaTxbakPL6vEn7ZYr86t5orq56nubki77Z8ZvRv9/fWdF bF/YBNGDayLNk0NbXIEQdCHiz1l+bxfw+GHHRmdOge3MKWSg463+GGMdxtLQ61AbtR2vm47FIJBt c0X6ptcInWUg4Nf/9vSNGl6KvREvfbEWKCT6TfL5ncIFlitf6ZWKue2PZ4ULFfIQ3/7EsEk03xxr S7sTOy7e2dbPboe/WwIDAQABo4GhMIGeMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgWgMB0G A1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0OBBYEFDeb9Jlj XSm+y0CD872IhzRDIGv1MDMGA1UdHwQsMCowKKAmoCSGImh0dHA6Ly9jYS5taXQuZWR1L2NhL21p dGNsaWVudC5jcmwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADgYEApBTx4tBbD5rQ+bNGd/Z3OBV07qFsm5QHNg0+ 6lxJ3j7q5zMMq35o6y5cBIhcFG6t+MFqJIdERZ3EprDturyqozQsIBMHFnqh+iZcMg0uQyssEqKZ hrzIdw8GuY4Z6jNewdGy5mwwG9yjpEbzWWgdofSM5rnezZz7EvCQu9ilt1sxggNDMIIDPwIBATCB gDBsMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEWMBQGA1UECBMNTWFzc2FjaHVzZXR0czEuMCwGA1UEChMlTWFzc2Fj aHVzZXR0cyBJbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgVGVjaG5vbG9neTEVMBMGA1UECxMMQ2xpZW50IENBIHYxAhAa ql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAQUAoIIBkzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0yMDEwMTIxNjUzNDNaMC8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEiBCAOLhsZRYkz 9c5pb+0KZi5SwfUv1u6tySX49FzrcyhpuzCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGDMIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGX nXswgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNo dXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUw EwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGXnXswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEA plqhbuDvZ67sLnnopl0VFqkvnlNNfMpFcHreevh5s/x86d0o4vISr0nsQQvWrE6YCkr3aQOWpmUh MSthDmWKUmMiPSEX0KeoPrXgGS+XFNbnAMmi4+rfubkFzSNMmqEg0jYaxrP3dfJGeAyXNJecjSy4 w1VIFLdOET3lpswhgo58A/RcosxHcAoZvIphS9ZBU1pUd9v1bqY+sOpsiWgZghTR0Sgy3sqDku4Z S5Ctlr91uS9vgaojoZ1V69/hxonKpqTmDvOMon+uYS4dE7giRUGx2H4fBtJ1ag8Zk+VcBrBEkQjR axqLsGLBGA2YC+yLZjoaNh+7f23RT+XMJF/miQAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_401CC783-0818-4F19-92C6-16F7214ABDD4--