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From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi@gnus.org>, <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: C-d deleting region considered harmful
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 12:39:19 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2988E644FE4A4AF1B5FB8C9F9E6BA69E@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m3sk1650c5.fsf@quimbies.gnus.org>

> > All new users will NOT have to suffer forever.  In fact, NO 
> > new users will have to suffer forever.  New users, like old
> > users, can discover options and change their settings if they like.
> 
> If new users sees a tool behaving strangely, they say "how odd", and
> then go on to the next tool.

Some yes, but not all.  You said "all new users".

Following that logic, ALL of the Emacs default UI should be exactly what all new
users expect - nothing more.  (Let's ignore here the fact that new users do not
_all_ expect the same things.)  We should then make no attempt to move newbies
in what we think is a better direction.

That has not been the approach for designing Emacs (although some periodically
do argue for such a knee-jerk recipe).  Instead, each feature and its options
are examined from various aspects and a judgment is made as to whether and how
much to risk surprising newbies but also guide them toward something better.

IOW, the devil is in the details: each potential default behavior is discussed
on its merits, including its effect on newbies.  There is no hard-and-fast rule
that everything must reflect what most (not to mention all) newbies are already
used to.  Not surprising newbies is only one consideration, albeit an important
one.




  reply	other threads:[~2010-09-18 19:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 133+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-09-18  1:49 C-d deleting region considered harmful Miles Bader
2010-09-18  3:06 ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 14:53   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18  8:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-09-18 15:00   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 19:22   ` Chong Yidong
2010-09-20 16:11     ` Chong Yidong
2010-09-18  9:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18  9:45   ` David Kastrup
2010-09-18 10:06     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18 10:15       ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18 12:02         ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 15:26           ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 16:14           ` Christoph
2010-09-18 16:20             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18 16:25               ` Christoph
2010-09-18 19:41                 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 19:45                   ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:17                     ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 14:23                       ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:46                         ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 21:02                           ` Christoph
2010-09-19 21:28                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 23:26                               ` Christoph
2010-09-20  6:52                                 ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 21:39                             ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 23:39                               ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-09-19 23:46                               ` Christoph
2010-09-18 15:15       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 14:21   ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 15:05   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 16:04     ` Stefan Monnier
2010-09-18 18:44       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 18:53         ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 19:11         ` Drew Adams
2010-09-20  0:16       ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-20  0:22         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-09-20  3:10           ` Drew Adams
2010-09-20 11:51             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-09-20  7:56           ` Bastien
2010-09-20 10:43             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-20 11:21               ` Bastien
2010-09-20 11:34                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-20 12:07                   ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 12:35                     ` Deniz Dogan
2010-09-20 12:37                       ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 12:56                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-20 12:55                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-22  0:56             ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-22  5:11               ` Miles Bader
2010-09-23  0:58                 ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-20  1:24         ` Miles Bader
2010-09-21  0:56           ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-21  1:01             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-09-21  7:51               ` David Kastrup
2010-09-21  8:19                 ` PJ Weisberg
2010-09-21  1:30             ` Miles Bader
2010-09-21  1:47               ` Leo
2010-09-21  2:42                 ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 16:47     ` Christoph
2010-09-18 18:44       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 18:50         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-18 19:13           ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 19:16             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-18 19:39               ` Drew Adams [this message]
2010-09-19  6:31               ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 11:07                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-19 11:23                   ` David Kastrup
2010-09-18 20:42             ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 20:22       ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 14:29 ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 15:07   ` Bastien
2010-09-18 15:52 ` Christoph
2010-09-18 18:40   ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 18:47     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-18 19:09       ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 21:18       ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 14:00         ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:07           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-19 18:00             ` Chad Brown
2010-09-19 18:21               ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-09-19 18:24                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-19 20:06                   ` Should C-x C-x activate the region? [was: C-d deleting region considered harmful] Drew Adams
2010-09-19 20:37                     ` David Reitter
2010-09-21  0:55                       ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-20  1:21                   ` C-d deleting region considered harmful Miles Bader
2010-09-20  6:59                     ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 13:43                       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-20 16:02                       ` Miles Bader
2010-09-20  7:12                     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-20  7:20                       ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 16:34                     ` Chad Brown
2010-09-20 22:09                       ` C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Stefan Monnier
2010-09-20 22:46                         ` Chad Brown
2010-09-21  0:17                         ` C-x C-x Chong Yidong
2010-09-21 20:52                           ` Johan Bockgård
2010-09-21  0:28                         ` C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  1:06                           ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  7:49                           ` C-x C-x David Kastrup
2010-09-21  9:22                             ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  9:40                               ` David Kastrup
2010-09-24 23:59                                 ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  7:25                         ` C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Thierry Volpiatto
2010-09-21  1:03                       ` C-d deleting region considered harmful Miles Bader
2010-09-21 19:12                         ` Chad Brown
2010-09-19 18:59               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 19:14               ` Alan Mackenzie
2010-09-19 21:27               ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 14:12           ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 21:11             ` Christoph
2010-09-21  6:29           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-09-21  8:04             ` David Kastrup
2010-09-21  8:23             ` Leo
2010-09-21  8:52               ` Deniz Dogan
2010-09-21  9:20                 ` Leo
2010-09-21  9:56                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-09-18 20:23     ` Christoph
2010-09-19  6:28       ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 12:40         ` Drew Adams
2010-09-19 13:38           ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:06           ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 19:18             ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 19:58               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-22  9:31                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 13:55       ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 14:23         ` Christoph
2010-09-18 18:44   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-19  1:05 ` Richard Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-09-18 11:55 dhruva
2010-09-18 14:22 ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 15:18 ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 17:48 ` David Kastrup
2010-09-18 19:24   ` Drew Adams

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