From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 3d38d1d: Add sqlite3 support to Emacs Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 06:07:48 +0100 Message-ID: <2911837.aIJK5UGffA@galex-713.eu> References: <20211211035614.15517.53830@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87y24r33bn.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37592"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eliz@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 12 06:09:22 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mwH6w-0009cU-C1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 06:09:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55684 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwH6t-0007XA-9D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 00:09:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39888) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwH5q-0006qn-Eo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 00:08:14 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:5884:8305::1] (port=36458 helo=galex-713.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwH5o-0002A2-DB; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 00:08:14 -0500 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1mwH5Q-001tNz-E1; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 06:07:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:5884:8305::1 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8305::1; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281748 Archived-At: Le diman=C4=89o, 12-a de decembro 2021, 4-a horo kaj 59:53 CET Richard Stal= lman=20 a =C3=A9crit : > and provides some details: for instance, should the >=20 > > symbol be named `plugin_is_GPL_compatible', or something like > > `plugin_is_free_software' (as SQLite3 is public domain instead of > > under > > the GPL). >=20 > I don't know anything technically about sqlite3, so I can't begin > to think about how to implement this, and I'm not sure what your > suggestions really mean. >=20 > What I do know is this: the crucial question is not what name that > symbol should have, but rather, Which programs need to define it? > Are you proposing to modify the free plug-ins to define this symbol, > and make sqlite3 itself check for it? >=20 > We really should have addressed this _before_ putting sqlite3 into the > Emacs repository at all. >=20 > Alexandre Garreau wrote: > > It should reuse what gcc does to load its plugins. GCC asks for a > > such > > symbol to check the plugins are GPLv3-compatible. >=20 > That's a good thing to do, but note that every plugin for GCC was > written specifically for dynamic linking with GCC. The plugin's > developers define ths symbols to be checked. >=20 > If we put the same mechanism into a modified sqlite3 -- let's call it > "GNUish sqlite3" -- we will need to make GNUish modified versions of > the plug-ins as well. >=20 > Maybe that's not a lot of work. How many free plug-ins are there? How is that important? adding a symbol should be atomicly simple. We=20 should automate the making of a patch adding a such definition to any=20 library. Then directly suggest it to distributions such as Debian, as I=20 suggested before. If sqlite people care so little about freedom to=20 distribute proprietary plugins, they won=E2=80=99t dare include such symbol= s, and=20 will consider it as esoteric nitpicking, especially when their license is=20 =E2=80=9Cpublic domain=E2=80=9D (which btw isn=E2=80=99t even legal in euro= pe). But serious=20 distributions such as Debian, upon which most of distributions depend,=20 would take that seriously. Other important distributions like RedHat may=20 as well. All other distributions are smaller, and even when they don=E2=80= =99t=20 really care, such as Arch (but parabola would care), they would follow, as= =20 soon as not following would break software (and we would make so that it=20 would break certain features of emacs). Btw I=E2=80=99m starting to think that if we=E2=80=99re gonna to push such = changes on=20 several external plugins to some other software, maybe we should push=20 similar changes to gstreamer plugins as well. To me, it would definitely=20 be a cleaner solution to the =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t load proprietary plugin= s=E2=80=9D as well (and=20 would avoid to discriminate against plugins which are free but patent- encumbered). We could try to convince GNOME people, and if (or rather=20 =E2=80=9Conce=E2=80=9D, imho, since I think they don=E2=80=99t really care = about freedom but are=20 rather =E2=80=9Copen source=E2=80=9D people), apply the same strategy to th= eir software.