From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: list of elisp primitives ? Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 09:21:20 +0900 Message-ID: <286A4660-A42C-45BE-AC41-42CF939E4237@traduction-libre.org> References: <627F3815-987E-4E82-8118-EE559CA7721F@traduction-libre.org> <5E53A27C-7C86-4275-AC12-9799C3CB1956@traduction-libre.org> <701C773A-96C5-47FD-B75F-92947976E57B@traduction-libre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="126205"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 27 01:22:01 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ikdOC-000Wg4-Te for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 01:22:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57726 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ikdOB-0006B7-R2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:21:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44929) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ikdNi-0005kH-Hy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:21:31 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ikdNg-0007KD-CB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:21:29 -0500 Original-Received: from relay11.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.231]:37503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ikdNg-0007Iy-36 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 19:21:28 -0500 Original-Received: from [172.20.10.3] (KD182251133105.au-net.ne.jp [182.251.133.105]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay11.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5ED1100002 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 00:21:24 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.178.231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:243684 Archived-At: Eduardo, I saw that you had a video on EmacsConf2019, I downloaded them all so = I'll be spending time on your eev package I guess. What you describe here (more so than in your other message) is very = interesting. For C-h I use the Helpful package that shows more things in = a better way. Thank you again. JC > On Dec 27, 2019, at 6:17, Eduardo Ochs wrote: >=20 > Hi Jean-Christophe, >=20 > On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 14:40, Jean-Christophe Helary > wrote: >>=20 >> Mind you, I too am trying to find my way around and it's not easy. >> My pet peeve is "discoverability" and for now despite the info/doc >> integration, I'm still very much struggling. >=20 > Emacs _tries_ to be an "high-discoverability environment"... if you > are trying to discover things but you feel that you are still > struggling then I think that at the very least we need to show you our > favourite tools and listen to your feedback... >=20 > I am the author of this package: >=20 > http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/eev.html > http://angg.twu.net/#eev >=20 > and one of my favourite parts of it is its "eev-ish" variant of > Emacs's `C-h f'. If you type `C-h f' with the point on the name of a > function - for example, on: >=20 > kill-buffer >=20 > you get a temporary buffer called "*Help*" that lots of information > and some hyperlinks - but if you copy these hyperlinks to other > buffers they won't work. >=20 > If you type `M-h M-f' on the "format" above with eev-mode on you will > get a tempory read-write buffer with these sexps: >=20 >=20 > # (find-efunction-links 'kill-buffer) > # (eek "M-h M-f kill-buffer") > # (find-eev-quick-intro "4.2. `find-ekey-links' and friends") >=20 > # (find-efunctiondescr 'kill-buffer) > # (find-efunction 'kill-buffer) > # (find-efunctionpp 'kill-buffer) > # (find-efunctiond 'kill-buffer) >=20 > # (Info-goto-emacs-command-node 'kill-buffer) > # (find-enode "Command Index" "* kill-buffer:") > # (find-elnode "Index" "* kill-buffer:") >=20 > # (where-is 'kill-buffer) > # (symbol-file 'kill-buffer 'defun) > # (find-fline (symbol-file 'kill-buffer 'defun)) > # (find-epp (assoc (symbol-file 'kill-buffer 'defun) load-history)) > # (find-estring (mapconcat 'identity (mapcar 'car load-history) = "\n")) > # (find-estring (documentation 'kill-buffer)) > # (find-estring (documentation 'kill-buffer t)) > # (describe-function 'kill-buffer) >=20 >=20 > This may look daunting at first but all these sexps are safe to play > with and if you copy them to your notes they will still work as elisp > hyperlinks - they are plain text without text properties, they don't > use things like these: >=20 > (info "(elisp)Buttons") >=20 > The idea behind this is: we _usually_ don't need to learn elisp > functions in depth, and neither memorize things - if we learn how to > navigate the code and docs and how to copy elisp hyperlinks to our > notes then we can learn a lot about Emacs _superficially_ as we browse > it by curiosity... and then if and when we want to learn something in > more depth - to create our own extensions, say - we will already have > some familiarity with the territory, and lots of links to things that > we found interesting at the other times we've been there. >=20 > I would love to see other people's suggestions. In the last months I > learned several help keys that I don't know that existed, and - hint, > hint! - I really hope that at some point someone will give pointers on > how to learn edebug, or things similar to it... edebug and friends > look like great tools for understanding convoluted code in elisp. >=20 > Cheers =3D), > Eduardo Ochs, "who lives in a cave with its walls covered by sexps". > http://angg.twu.net/#eev > http://angg.twu.net/emacsconf2019.html >=20 >=20 > P.S.: ah, before I forget: > http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-here-links-intro.html > (It mentions several recent features.) >=20 Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune