http access to source code

http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

bazaar.launchpad.net is down, or times out, most of the time.
This has been the case from the beginning (since the switch to bazaar).

Re: http access to source code

[Karl Fogel]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>bazaar.launchpad.net is down, or times out, most of the time.
>This has been the case from the beginning (since the switch to bazaar).

Can you give some more details?  Like, what exact command you tried,
what the output was, etc?

-K

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> > bazaar.launchpad.net is down, or times out, most of the time.
> > This has been the case from the beginning (since the switch 
> > to bazaar).
> 
> Can you give some more details?  Like, what exact command you tried,
> what the output was, etc?

Just try to go to
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/ in a
Web browser.

You get this message:

 Please try again
 Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. 
 Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem
 persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. 
 Thanks for your patience.

[Note BTW that there isn't even a mail address or a bug-report link - just IRC
access to report problems.]

Or try to download a source file (if you ever do get in to the file listing and
then to a source-file page), by right-clicking the `download file' tab and
trying to save.

In general, each click of any link gives the `Please try again' message.
Occasionally you can get through. Most likely the server is simply swamped all
the time.

Re: http access to source code

[Karl Fogel]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> > bazaar.launchpad.net is down, or times out, most of the time.
>> > This has been the case from the beginning (since the switch 
>> > to bazaar).
>> 
>> Can you give some more details?  Like, what exact command you tried,
>> what the output was, etc?
>
>Just try to go to
>http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/ in a
>Web browser.
>
>You get this message:
>
> Please try again
> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. 
> Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem
> persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. 
> Thanks for your patience.

?  Works for me.  Screenshot at:

  http://www.red-bean.com/kfogel/lp-browsing-emacs.png 

>[Note BTW that there isn't even a mail address or a bug-report link - just IRC
>access to report problems.]
>
>Or try to download a source file (if you ever do get in to the file listing and
>then to a source-file page), by right-clicking the `download file' tab and
>trying to save.

Sure, I just downloaded 'files.el' on the first try.

>In general, each click of any link gives the `Please try again'
>message.  Occasionally you can get through. Most likely the server is
>simply swamped all the time.

Well, if you have time to go into that IRC channel and report the
problems, it might help them a lot, because you have an ability to
reproduce this that I (at least) don't.

-Karl

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> >> > bazaar.launchpad.net is down, or times out, most of the time.
> >> > This has been the case from the beginning (since the switch 
> >> > to bazaar).
> >> 
> >> Can you give some more details?  Like, what exact command 
> >> you tried, what the output was, etc?
> >
> >Just try to go to
> >http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/ in a
> >Web browser.
> >
> >You get this message:
> >
> > Please try again
> > Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. 
> > Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem
> > persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. 
> > Thanks for your patience.
> 
> ?  Works for me.  Screenshot at:
>   http://www.red-bean.com/kfogel/lp-browsing-emacs.png 

Works for me sometimes too. But not most of the time.

It works for me just now. So maybe we're lucky now.
Or maybe I was unlucky earlier (and often).

> Sure, I just downloaded 'files.el' on the first try.

Yes, it's working right now. It wasn't working well earlier, when I posted (or I
wouldn't have bothered to).

Most (or at least much) of the time, I see that error message and just have to
keep trying. My guess is that the server is overloaded much of the time.

> Well, if you have time to go into that IRC channel and report the
> problems, it might help them a lot, because you have an ability to
> reproduce this that I (at least) don't.

I don't use IRC. If my report here helps, great. If you feel it works all the
time and I'm the only one that finds it unresponsive (you cannot reproduce it,
as you say), then I guess you can ignore this feedback. HTH.

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

Is there any hope this situation will change?
I can almost never seem to get to the source code.

Karl says he cannot reproduce the problem, but I see it most of the time.

> From: Drew Adams Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 8:59 AM
> > >> > bazaar.launchpad.net is down, or times out, most of the time.
> > >> > This has been the case from the beginning (since the switch 
> > >> > to bazaar).
> > >> 
> > >> Can you give some more details?  Like, what exact command 
> > >> you tried, what the output was, etc?
> > >
> > >Just try to go to
> > 
> > >http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/
> > >in a Web browser.
> > >
> > >You get this message:
> > >
> > > Please try again
> > > Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. 
> > > Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem
> > > persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. 
> > > Thanks for your patience.
> > 
> > ?  Works for me.  Screenshot at:
> >   http://www.red-bean.com/kfogel/lp-browsing-emacs.png 
> 
> Works for me sometimes too. But not most of the time.
> 
> It works for me just now. So maybe we're lucky now.
> Or maybe I was unlucky earlier (and often).
> 
> > Sure, I just downloaded 'files.el' on the first try.
> 
> Yes, it's working right now. It wasn't working well earlier, 
> when I posted (or I wouldn't have bothered to).
> 
> Most (or at least much) of the time, I see that error message 
> and just have to keep trying. My guess is that the server is
> overloaded much of the time.
> 
> > Well, if you have time to go into that IRC channel and report the
> > problems, it might help them a lot, because you have an ability to
> > reproduce this that I (at least) don't.
> 
> I don't use IRC. If my report here helps, great. If you feel 
> it works all the time and I'm the only one that finds it
> unresponsive (you cannot reproduce it, as you say), then I
> guess you can ignore this feedback. HTH.

RE: http access to source code

[alin.s]

Drew Adams wrote:
> 
> 
>> > Well, if you have time to go into that IRC channel and report the
>> > problems, it might help them a lot, because you have an ability to
>> > reproduce this that I (at least) don't.
>> 
>> I don't use IRC. If my report here helps, great. If you feel 
>> it works all the time and I'm the only one that finds it
>> unresponsive (you cannot reproduce it, as you say), then I
>> guess you can ignore this feedback. HTH.
> 
> 

This is the output for me (
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/ in
mozilla)


Please try again

Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.

Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us
know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.

Thanks for your patience.



Alin.

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Re: http access to source code

[Giuseppe Scrivano]

Here the same, on the first attempt.

Giuseppe



"alin.s" <alinsoar@voila.fr> writes:

> This is the output for me (
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files/head%3A/lisp/ in
> mozilla)
>
>
> Please try again
>
> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
>
> Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us
> know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.
>
> Thanks for your patience.
>
>
>
> Alin.

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> Here the same, on the first attempt.
> 
> > This is the output for me
> >
> > Please try again
> >
> > Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
> >
> > Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem 
> > persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.
> >
> > Thanks for your patience.

Well at least I'm glad to see someone else sees the same thing I do. I see this
almost all the time. I don't use IRC. Perhaps someone else will report it. But I
would be surprised if they weren't aware of it. It's been like this forever.

Re: http access to source code

[Lennart Borgman]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
>
> Well at least I'm glad to see someone else sees the same thing I do. I see this
> almost all the time. I don't use IRC. Perhaps someone else will report it. But I
> would be surprised if they weren't aware of it. It's been like this forever.


I have been able to access the bazaar rep for nXhtml through http many
times. I even wrote elisp for downloading  a whole rep that way. And I
have used it.

But now it seems broken.

RE: http access to source code

[alin.s]

Drew Adams wrote:
> 
> 
> Well at least I'm glad to see someone else sees the same thing I do. I see
> this
> almost all the time. I don't use IRC. Perhaps someone else will report it.
> But I
> would be surprised if they weren't aware of it. It's been like this
> forever.
> 
> 

How can I check out the devel sources ?


Alin
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RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:51 PM
> > Here the same, on the first attempt.
> > 
> > > This is the output for me
> > >
> > >  Please try again
> > >
> > >  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
> > >
> > >  Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem 
> > >  persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.
> > >
> > >  Thanks for your patience.
> 
> Well at least I'm glad to see someone else sees the same 
> thing I do.  I see this almost all the time.  I don't use IRC.
> Perhaps someone else will report it.  But I would be surprised
> if they weren't aware of it.  It's been like this forever.

This sorry sorry-thank-you page has been thanking us for our patience for a
_very_ long time now.  Is there at least a plan to do something about this?
HTTP access to the source code is nearly non-existent (/dev/null-like), and it
has been this way since the changeover to BZR.

So much for a project that inscribes on its banner that source-code access is
the be-all and end-all.  (No flames, please - just chalk it up to user
grumbling.  I know full well that the source code _is_ available through other
means than HTTP.)

Seriously, this state of affairs is lamentable (ridiculous?) in 2010.  It's like
going back 20 years in time.  Normally functioning HTTP access is the least that
could be provided nowadays.  It really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

And that friendly thanks-for-your-patience page doesn't even have an email or
web address you can report problems to (though there is really only _one_
problem to report: it just doesn't work).  The only thing mentioned is an IRC
channel.  Sheesh - how lame is that?

Anyway, thanks for listening.  I'll keep dialing, trying to get through, though
I feel my chances are better with the lottery or SETI.

Re: http access to source code

[Chong Yidong]

Or, you can just install bzr.

Re: http access to source code

[René Kyllingstad]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:51 PM
>> > Here the same, on the first attempt.
>> >
>> > > This is the output for me
>> > >
>> > >  Please try again
>> > >
>> > >  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
>> > >
>> > >  Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem
>> > >  persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.
>> > >
>> > >  Thanks for your patience.
>>
>> Well at least I'm glad to see someone else sees the same
>> thing I do.  I see this almost all the time.  I don't use IRC.
>> Perhaps someone else will report it.  But I would be surprised
>> if they weren't aware of it.  It's been like this forever.
>
> This sorry sorry-thank-you page has been thanking us for our patience for a
> _very_ long time now.  Is there at least a plan to do something about this?
> HTTP access to the source code is nearly non-existent (/dev/null-like), and it
> has been this way since the changeover to BZR.

This works for me right now:

    http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files


-- René

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> From: Chong Yidong 
> Or, you can just install bzr.

Sigh.


Anyway, someone just sent me this URL off list:
http://repo.or.cz/w/emacs.git

That's apparently a read-only mirror that might sometimes be up to 12 hours
behind, but that's usually OK for my purposes.  Thanks for that.

Re: http access to source code

[A. Soare]

CVS. This is the lost paradise. I do not know why you stopped the development under cvs.

For now I do not have time to continue the work for emacs (the watchpoints), but hope that I will be able to check out the sources without difficulties.


Alin.



> Message du 15/07/10 à 17h13
> De : "Chong Yidong" <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> A : "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Copie à : "'Giuseppe Scrivano'" <gscrivano@gnu.org>, "'alin.s'" <alinsoar@voila.fr>, Emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Objet : Re: http access to source code
> 
> 
> Or, you can just install bzr.
> 
> 

____________________________________________________

 Retrouvez le programme des sorties de l'été : les festivals, les feux d'artifice et les bals du 14 juillet sur http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/VacancesEte2010/

RE: http access to source code

[A. Soare]

> Message du 15/07/10 à 17h25
> De : "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> A : "'Chong Yidong'" <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
> Copie à : "'Giuseppe Scrivano'" <gscrivano@gnu.org>, "'alin.s'" <alinsoar@voila.fr>, Emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Objet : RE: http access to source code
> 
> 
> > From: Chong Yidong 
> > Or, you can just install bzr.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> 
> Anyway, someone just sent me this URL off list:
> http://repo.or.cz/w/emacs.git
What button do you press there to check out the sources?




ALin

____________________________________________________

 Retrouvez le programme des sorties de l'été : les festivals, les feux d'artifice et les bals du 14 juillet sur http://actu.voila.fr/evenementiel/VacancesEte2010/

Re: http access to source code

[Chong Yidong]

"A. Soare" <alinsoar@voila.fr> writes:


>> Anyway, someone just sent me this URL off list:
>> http://repo.or.cz/w/emacs.git
> What button do you press there to check out the sources?

Please take this discussion off list.  Thanks.

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> > Anyway, someone just sent me this URL off list:
> > http://repo.or.cz/w/emacs.git
>
> What button do you press there to check out the sources?

I clicked the `tree' link.

But I'm not checking out the sources.
I'm just downloading a file or two.

HTH.

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> >> Anyway, someone just sent me this URL off list:
> >> http://repo.or.cz/w/emacs.git
> >
> > What button do you press there to check out the sources?
> 
> Please take this discussion off list.  Thanks.

Sorry, I already answered Alin before receiving your mail.

For my info: Is there something wrong with pointing to that site?  Is it a
no-no?  I know nothing about that site, except that it seems to be what someone
told me it was: a mirror of the code in the repository.

Re: http access to source code

[Chong Yidong]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> Please take this discussion off list.  Thanks.
>
> Sorry, I already answered Alin before receiving your mail.
>
> For my info: Is there something wrong with pointing to that site?  Is
> it a no-no?  I know nothing about that site, except that it seems to
> be what someone told me it was: a mirror of the code in the
> repository.

There is nothing wrong with pointing to a third-part mirror of the Emacs
development sources, but extensive discussions about how to use the
mirror are mostly irrelevant.

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> This works for me right now:
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files

It works for me sometimes too.
And it worked for me too right now.
But it does not work most of the time.
It should work most of the time.

Re: http access to source code

[Stefan Monnier]

> This sorry sorry-thank-you page has been thanking us for our patience for a
> _very_ long time now.

Have you tried to access that page a few times in a row.  I've seen this
message as well, but if I retry right away, it usually works (my mental
model to explain it: the Emacs repository is so large that it takes too
long to swap it in, so the webserver timeouts and gives an error even
though the operation actually works fine, so if you try it again right
away, it can work because some of the data is already swapped in and
the whole process can then finish before the timeout).


        Stefan

RE: http access to source code

[Drew Adams]

> > This sorry sorry-thank-you page has been thanking us for 
> > our patience for a _very_ long time now.
> 
> Have you tried to access that page a few times in a row.  

Yes, indeed, I have - naturally.  That's usually what I do, for the reasons you
mention below.

> I've seen this message as well, but if I retry right away,
> it usually works 

Sometimes it does; I agree.  Too often it does not.

To me, this HTTP access is woefully inadequate.  Others do not seem to complain,
however.  Dunno whether there are only a few people who try HTTP access, with
nearly everyone using BZR instead.  I use HTTP to download specific source
files, so for me this is a sorry regression wrt the state of things prior to the
move to BZR. (I'm *not* making any general statement about BZR vs CVS or GIT or
whatever.)

> (my mental model to explain it: the Emacs repository is so large
> that it takes too long to swap it in, so the webserver timeouts
> and gives an error even though the operation actually works fine,
> so if you try it again right away, it can work because some of
> the data is already swapped in and
> the whole process can then finish before the timeout).

Yes, I've imagined the same thing.  And I do try refreshing (repeatedly).  And
sometimes I do get through.  But not often enough to consider that workaround a
remedy.

More anecdotal support for the model you suggest is that on the days that you
ultimately can get through, it definitely is not a good idea to open two browser
windows to different parts of the repository. ;-)

Re: http access to source code

[Lennart Borgman]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>> This sorry sorry-thank-you page has been thanking us for our patience for a
>> _very_ long time now.
>
> Have you tried to access that page a few times in a row.  I've seen this
> message as well, but if I retry right away, it usually works (my mental
> model to explain it: the Emacs repository is so large that it takes too
> long to swap it in, so the webserver timeouts and gives an error even
> though the operation actually works fine, so if you try it again right
> away, it can work because some of the data is already swapped in and
> the whole process can then finish before the timeout).


So you mean that the whole tree structure has to be swapped in to
access a single directory or file? Is that the web server interface of
bazaar that has this kind of problem?

I would guess that the problem is within bazaar (because of
optimizations perhaps have been made against single goals there, but
this is just my guess). In that case the cure would be caching the
tree structure.