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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "Philip K." <philipk@posteo.net>
Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
	Thibaut Verron <thibaut.verron@gmail.com>,
	"T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
Subject: RE: Emacs default key bindings    [was: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings?]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 13:41:45 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <28074306-3602-4251-a896-532c5f86c656@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87wo08ph6w.fsf@posteo.net>

> > 3. There's been a tendency recently to give Emacs
> > even more default key bindings.  Two cases come
> > to mind, both in 2020:
> >
> > a. `C-x p' was taken by Emacs as a prefix key for
> >    `project.el' commands.
> > b. `C-x t' was taken by Emacs as a prefix key for
> >    `tabbar.el' commands.
> >
> > Maybe those deserve prefix keys (?).  But you see
> > the tendency - less and less for users; more taken
> > by default bindings.
> >
> > That's 2 excellent prefix keys just removed,
> > in effect, from the user/3rd-party space.  Poof!
    ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I get that they were in effect removed from the 3rd-party space, but the
> user is still the final arbiter in what is bound or not. Do you really
> loose anything, if you rebind C-x p, if you don't use project.el? Same
> goes for C-x t if you don't use tabs.

As I said:

  Sure, any user or library can redefine any keys.

  But once blessed as a default vanilla-Emacs key
  binding, a key is, for practical purposes,
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  kinda off limits for a library.

It's about what's practical.  And it's about 3rd-party
libraries also, not just individual user customizations.

And who says that a user won't use project.el?  I left
the question open as to whether it needs a prefix key
defined by default.  But suppose it does.  Does it need
to be at the top level of `C-x'?

Scarcity means we should perhaps start thinking of
putting some things on lower levels under `C-x'
(assuming they need default bindings).  We already have
some prefix keys under `C-x': `8' (and several prefix
keys under `C-x 8'), `RET' (`C-m'), `ESC' (for `C-M-'),
`a', `a i', `b', `n', `r', `r ESC', `t', `v M', `@'.

The post I linked to starts by saying that we would do
well to split `C-x r', for example, as it's got a
mixture of stuff on it.

We could do that by having prefix keys under `C-x r'.
My suggestion was to move the bookmark stuff from
`C-x r' to `C-x p', but there are other ways to clean
up `C-x r' from being the congeries that it is now
(rectangle, register, and bookmark, so far).

> My point is that there seem to be varying degrees of
> importance to key-bindings 

I believe I suggested the same thing.  There are several
things to consider when binding a key, including doing
so as a default for Emacs.  Keys are by no means equal
in their abilities, mnemonic suggestions, ease of use,
or other "importance".



  reply	other threads:[~2020-10-02 20:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-10-02 18:14 Emacs default key bindings [was: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings?] Drew Adams
2020-10-02 19:21 ` Philip K.
2020-10-02 20:41   ` Drew Adams [this message]
2020-10-02 19:24 ` Ergus
2020-10-02 20:45   ` Drew Adams
2020-10-02 22:31   ` Philip K.
2020-10-02 22:50     ` Drew Adams
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-10-02 18:46 arthur miller

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