From: "alin.s" <alinsoar@voila.fr>
To: Emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: redisplay system of emacs
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:37:56 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <27564505.post@talk.nabble.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4B7564C7.1010309@swipnet.se>
I agree that it is not a good plan . I thought that the X server notifies
you exactly the characters that need redisplaying, and so it would be very
clear the redisplay for everybody !
Jan Djärv wrote:
>
> alin.s skrev:
>>
>>
>> alin.s skrev:
>>> An improvement in redisplay for X can be done by defining in the edit
>>> area
>>> of
>>> every window a subwindow for every character. For a window of geometry
>>> 200x70 of characters, it would be 1400 windows registered in X-server.
>>
>> You are mad. Everything would be 1400 times more. 1400 times more calls
>> to
>> the X server, 1400 times more GC:s created, 1400 times more events from
>> the
>> X
>> server, 1400 times more Xft structures (XftDraws for example) created.
>> Emacs would be at least 1400 times slower.
>>
>> The computations are not done as you say. Please read the X windows
>> manual.
>
> I have done so for every edition since X10.
>
>>
>> If you make 1000 identical calls of Xlib functions, Xlib put them into
>> its
>> queue, and send them once.
>>
>
> Yes it does put calls in a queue. All 1400 of them instead of one. But
> given
> how IPC works, in reality it will be many writes to the socket anyway,
> even if
> the queue tries to minimize that. And the amount of data is still 1400
> (or
> 14000) times more. X does not squeeze several calls into one, there are
> still
> several calls. And they are not identical anyway, they are for different
> windows.
>
>>
>> I do not know what is bad to keep in the server 100.000 of little
>> structures. Apart from memory consuming, no problem of speed.
>
> But you have to keep track of all handles to these data as well in Emacs
> so
> both have to have 14000 times more data.
>
>>
>> You do not need 14.000 Graphics Contextes, only 1 for window is enough!
>
> Ok, so GC:s wasn't a good example.
>
>> It is many times more consuming of memory of the server side. Please
>> learn
>> Xlib programming to understand it.
>
> No need to be condescending, it doesn't help your cause. I've done X
> programming since the late 80:s.
>
>>
>>> To say more, in order to clear a character it would require no
>>> computation,
>>> but only a simply call of XClearWindow().
>>>
>>> Every window could have its own font.
>>
>> So say we have 1400 windows each with a different font with a different
>> size?
>> How do you purpose we lay this out? Instead of laying out characters
>> we
>> are
>> now laying out windows. Same problem, but with an enormous overhead.
>>
>> Same problem, only 1 GC for every window.
>
> No it is not the same problem. For every window you will have to tell X
> where
> it will be positioned, i,e. x and y and width and height. If every window
> have its own font with its own size you have to calculate all this for
> every
> window, and the recalculate it for all windows when a font changes in one
> window. Sounds like what redisplay does today.
>
>>
>>> And to say more, an image of high dimension will be divided in many
>>> subwindows, and emacs will be able to display images normally, not as a
>>> huge
>>> glyph.
>>
>> Again, making the display of an image to be so much slower, because
>> instead
>> of
>> one (ideally), call to the X server, we now have one per window. And
>> what a
>> nightmare to figure out what part of an image that needs to be redrawn
>> and
>> moved if the user changes the size of the Emacs frame...
>>
>> We do have 1 call for window, and 1 network message to the server for
>> every
>> update.
>
> ... times 14000 windows...
>
>>
>> The only problem in this implementation would be to compute the size of
>> every window, and to compute its coordinates.
>
> So you have gained nothing really, redisplay is the hard part.
>
> Jan D.
>
>
>
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/redisplay-system-of-emacs-tp27349166p27564505.html
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-02-12 14:37 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-01-28 0:19 redisplay system of emacs alin.s
2010-01-28 4:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-28 9:07 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-01-28 11:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-28 11:47 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-01-28 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-28 12:53 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-01-28 14:10 ` Miles Bader
2010-01-28 15:04 ` alin.s
2010-01-28 22:34 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-01-29 10:04 ` Paul R
2010-01-29 10:17 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-29 10:23 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-01-29 10:30 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-29 13:18 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-01-29 11:03 ` Miles Bader
2010-01-29 11:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-29 15:10 ` Miles Bader
2010-01-29 17:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-29 10:48 ` Paul R
2010-01-29 11:01 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-29 18:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-29 11:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-29 13:06 ` Paul R
2010-01-29 13:10 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-29 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-29 15:28 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-29 18:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-29 18:56 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-01-30 11:46 ` Richard Stallman
2010-01-30 12:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-01-30 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-30 19:21 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-01-30 21:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-31 9:32 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-31 12:41 ` Richard Stallman
2010-01-29 19:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-30 18:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-30 18:39 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-30 10:34 ` Fabian Ezequiel Gallina
2010-01-30 10:52 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-30 21:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-29 13:07 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-28 5:10 ` Ken Hori
2010-01-28 12:10 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-28 13:41 ` alin.s
2010-01-28 14:50 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-02-12 8:31 ` alin.s
2010-02-12 12:10 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-02-12 13:41 ` alin.s
2010-02-12 12:49 ` Jan Djärv
2010-02-12 13:30 ` alin.s
2010-02-12 14:25 ` Jan Djärv
2010-02-12 14:37 ` alin.s [this message]
2010-02-12 14:53 ` alin.s
2010-02-12 15:11 ` Jan Djärv
2010-02-12 15:31 ` David Kastrup
2010-02-12 15:55 ` Jan Djärv
2010-02-12 16:53 ` alin.s
2010-02-12 18:55 ` David Kastrup
2010-02-14 19:13 ` alin.s
2010-02-17 13:14 ` Chong Yidong
2010-02-23 0:45 ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-02-23 3:01 ` David Reitter
2010-02-23 3:34 ` Tom Tromey
2010-02-23 14:31 ` Richard Stallman
2010-03-05 22:53 ` Concurrency (was: redisplay system of emacs) Stefan Monnier
2010-03-05 22:57 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-03-11 14:18 ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-03-25 16:49 ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-03-26 17:10 ` Concurrency Ted Zlatanov
2010-03-26 19:37 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-27 3:00 ` Concurrency Ted Zlatanov
2010-03-27 13:33 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-29 18:18 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-28 19:40 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-28 20:03 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-28 20:25 ` Concurrency Davis Herring
2010-03-28 20:54 ` Concurrency Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-03-28 23:18 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-29 10:04 ` Concurrency Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-03-29 15:37 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-29 16:16 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-29 16:36 ` Concurrency Ken Raeburn
2010-03-29 17:41 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-29 16:33 ` Concurrency Ken Raeburn
2010-03-29 16:58 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-29 17:46 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-29 17:37 ` Concurrency Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-03-29 18:21 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-28 21:19 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-28 21:22 ` Concurrency Daniel Colascione
2010-03-28 23:20 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-29 2:18 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-28 21:17 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-29 16:25 ` Concurrency Ken Raeburn
2010-03-29 16:49 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-03-29 17:39 ` Concurrency Stefan Monnier
2010-03-31 17:13 ` gsoc for concurrent Emacs? (was: Concurrency) Ted Zlatanov
2010-04-01 9:45 ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-03-28 21:04 ` Concurrency Giuseppe Scrivano
2010-03-28 21:25 ` Concurrency Daniel Colascione
2010-03-29 2:20 ` Concurrency Tom Tromey
2010-02-14 19:25 ` redisplay system of emacs alin.s
2010-02-16 16:40 ` Davis Herring
2010-02-16 19:20 ` grischka
2010-02-16 19:55 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2010-02-17 13:56 ` alin.s
2010-02-16 20:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-02-16 20:56 ` grischka
2010-02-17 4:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-01-29 19:48 grischka
2010-01-30 5:39 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-30 9:53 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-30 11:01 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-30 11:08 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-30 11:54 ` Paul R
2010-01-30 13:52 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-30 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-30 12:53 ` Alan Mackenzie
2010-01-30 9:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-30 11:46 ` Richard Stallman
2010-01-30 12:11 ` Paul R
2010-01-30 13:26 ` Alan Mackenzie
2010-01-30 13:42 ` David Kastrup
2010-01-30 13:49 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-01-30 13:54 ` Paul R
2010-01-30 15:15 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-30 15:07 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-31 12:41 ` Richard Stallman
2010-01-31 16:36 ` grischka
2010-02-01 21:06 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-02 3:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-02-02 21:21 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-02 21:42 ` David Kastrup
2010-02-03 0:24 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-02-03 6:45 ` David Kastrup
2010-02-03 13:34 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-03 14:15 ` David Kastrup
2010-02-03 14:18 ` Daniel Colascione
2010-02-04 11:01 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-03 2:48 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-02-03 12:19 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-02-04 11:00 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-04 11:06 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-02-05 12:44 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-05 18:37 ` grischka
2010-02-03 13:34 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-03 17:26 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-02-03 17:45 ` David Kastrup
2010-02-03 18:35 ` grischka
2010-02-03 18:36 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-02-03 19:03 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-02-03 20:31 ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-02-03 20:37 ` Lennart Borgman
2010-02-04 8:23 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-02-04 23:18 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-05 5:46 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-02-04 11:01 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-04 11:38 ` David Kastrup
2010-02-05 19:08 ` Richard Stallman
2010-02-04 12:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
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