From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:25:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <26ff0a05-bd18-4108-bf6a-85e3bf5937af@default> References: <<875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com>> <> <<83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org>> <<8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com>> <> <> <<83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26480"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 18:26:11 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH8Lq-0006li-7Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255378 Archived-At: > > 2. disable tool-bar-mode >=20 > We have just established that [the tool bar] > is important for newbies. Without expressing a preference for the default behavior here, let me ask whether it's true that we've established that tool-bar on is important for newbies. Menu-bar, yes. Or a hamburger-menu or whatever. But tool-bar? Have we really "established" that? A menu-bar is quite helpful for discovery, which is important. We want users to discover features and key bindings. A tool-bar isn't so useful for discovery, I think. But again, that's not an opinion that we should remove it by default. I'm just questioning the declaration that it's already (newly) established that it should be shown by default.