From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improve access to documentation in Info format Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 01:41:22 +0200 Message-ID: <26628.02251741$1734133357@news.gmane.org> References: <87ser8c230.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86ser87rut.fsf@gnu.org> <871pygyjqt.fsf_-_@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28403"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Suhail Singh , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 14 00:42:28 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tMFIi-0007Ec-3R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 00:42:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tMFHn-0008SG-7E; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 18:41:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tMFHk-0008Ru-Oq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 18:41:29 -0500 Original-Received: from thaodan.de ([185.216.177.71]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tMFHi-0007Cp-NL; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 18:41:28 -0500 Original-Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-50dc7b-49.dhcp.inet.fi [80.220.123.49]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB9A8D00045; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 01:41:23 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1734133283; bh=WHIA+O+bLwYKV8jd8rsRyonQxXGpGXtrlLW/0NnX8Xw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=05Qo+0gHy3Ydh7vGMYIypfaLUGFEnAoV6FBKW9HEGITRBSYbIuf/LYFbM4RaEib7+ bN/QbhCP1/+xeXyS8MoBFB8iwjDJOjKAczhjq0YszNoghO3udM4RNf5o41tyQayfmE fSOB7eJxz+KXYnQ/54uPWGZUGXyoI9N4AwOG6Uw1a8FH3iGs9whjWvK1Qngv7R2Kv1 aon4L4pwygkHyVm0u4LPotBl3WDs6TMx+xmz7whB3JPU79qaVQ6BU0EFbnCnNodVfW wS6eC5JvNUdm7qav1pDPJz8z7Ub3IZfxOld/1AfY0y1CPkiiELVokl1OepqVpd+A8A juLaEe112QlHvNrTRrIqXtNvzclUBrg+3CCQnUUqIwEWXGoTgB10vyeigskefODUWa uta/w/QzNxie+aT3FGcGscbd2zlBfdC6MS7NmniX+6qno4CFmxHIZfRmgeCUdKxxy4 DamjaEfOlfHCSbiTVMWSCNYuPKHonWuCqX5iRmYyFBir4XXkMI38GhsiKPnRfndzeh 71Gr8FLUNxdjhMVEajWg+OnHXTGDrdS7YOtYEJWptVJm++KOWZGDT30sP7vEylglh4 PSDI+5EX54FgNBaA9ClMVKaOJvJmjiLfCrqtActJv41BnKAHoEN/GUDL2lpW2CSFmI mWzwiW8zzRapcQ8Je3xVRV28= In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 10 Dec 2024 23:37:21 -0500") Autocrypt: addr=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEZNfpPhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACBEmr+0xwIIHZfIDlZmm7sa+lHHSb0g9FZrN6qE6ru60JUJq w7ZybiBCaWRhciA8Ympvcm4uYmlkYXJAdGhhb2Rhbi5kZT6IlgQTFgoAPgIbAwULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgBYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1/YmAhkBAAoJEFwbdKFl HF9oB9cBAJoIIGQKXm4cpap+Flxc/EGnYl0123lcEyzuduqvlDT0AQC3OlFKm/OiqJ8IMTrzJRZ8 phFssTkSrrFXnM2jm5PYDoiTBBMWCgA7FiEEUfF263VHMB6nKairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX6T4CGwMF CwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQXBt0oWUcX2hbCQEAtru7kvM8hi8zo6z9ux2h K+B5xViKuo7Z8K3IXuK5ugwA+wUfKzomzdBPhfxDsqLcEziGRxoyx0Q3ld9aermBUccHtBxCasO2 cm4gQmlkYXIgPG1lQHRoYW9kYW4uZGU+iJMEExYKADsCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgcCF4AWIQRR8XbrdUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf2FQAKCRBcG3ShZRxfaCzSAP4hZ7cSp0YN XYpcjHdsySh2MuBhhoPeLGXs+2kSiqBiOwD/TP8AgPEg/R+SI9GI9on7fBJJ0mp2IT8kZ2rhDOjg gA6IkwQTFgoAOxYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlH Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.216.177.71; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:326461 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > 1. Providing an "easy" way for users to see available info manuals and > > install them. > > I think we should be able to do this. The way I see is involves two > steps: > > a, Set up some sort of download repo with all the Info manuals. > > b. Write software to find the desired manual, fetch it, and install it > on your computer. That's the users package manager in almost all the cases. If not the solutions mentioned by Suhail Singh are an option. Writing a new software for this isn't a good idea IMHO. Writing build scrits/descriptions for all the possible package managers we could face should be much easier. I wouldn't do this for ALL info manuals but only for those where are no packages for. For those where a conversion to Texinfo is done e.g. Sphinx like for example when packaging CMake it easier to add the info manual packaging to existing packaging. Add that is a very minor change and could be done by users interested into having these info manuals with little amount of time. Guix is a good place for examples of these efforts. > Would people like tp vplunteer to work on this? > > > 2. Make it easier to generate and perhaps also provide, via 1, Info > > manuals for packages that use other documentation generation systems. > > A popular candidate to target in this regard is Sphinx. Sphinx has > > some existing support, IIUC, to generate Texinfo output. > > In principle I think this is a good idea, but there is a technical > difficulty: it is impossible to produce a fully correct Info manual > from those other formats. because those other formats do not make > the necessary distincions. Info being the minority in this instance would be in the position to improve the output of these engines. It would be best to approach this diplomatic. > It would not be terribly hard to write software which would do this > job _as well as could be done given the current formats_, but the > results will be visibly wrong. > > What would be terribly hard is to do a better job than that.