From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@is.elta.co.il>
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel
Subject: Re: [dane@mail.abcsinc.com: Scroll bars]
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:44:58 +0300
Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org
Message-ID: <2593-Wed21Aug2002094458+0300-eliz@is.elta.co.il>
References: <200208170450.g7H4ovd08634@wijiji.santafe.edu> <200208191453.g7JErRv13421@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200208201721.g7KHLNV09768@wijiji.santafe.edu>
Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@is.elta.co.il>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org
X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1029912249 799 127.0.0.1 (21 Aug 2002 06:44:09 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:44:09 +0000 (UTC)
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Return-path: <emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org>
Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244])
	by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 17hPDs-0000Cm-00
	for <emacs-devel@main.gmane.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:44:08 +0200
Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173])
	by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
	id 17hPg9-0002kP-00
	for <emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org>; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:13:21 +0200
Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org)
	by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10)
	id 17hPEw-000427-00; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 02:45:14 -0400
Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10)
	id 17hPCH-0003j5-00
	for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 02:42:29 -0400
Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10)
	id 17hPCA-0003ci-00
	for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 02:42:29 -0400
Original-Received: from balder.inter.net.il ([192.114.186.15])
	by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10)
	id 17hPCA-0003bK-00; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 02:42:22 -0400
Original-Received: from Zaretsky ([80.230.2.40])
	by balder.inter.net.il (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.1.0.58-GA)
	with ESMTP id BRJ77143;
	Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:42:17 +0300 (IDT)
Original-To: rms@gnu.org
X-Mailer: emacs 21.3.50 (via feedmail 8 I) and Blat ver 1.8.9
In-Reply-To: <200208201721.g7KHLNV09768@wijiji.santafe.edu> (message from
	Richard Stallman on Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:21:23 -0600 (MDT))
Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org
X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11
Precedence: bulk
List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>,
	<mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: Emacs development discussions. <emacs-devel.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>,
	<mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/emacs-devel/>
Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:6715
X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:6715

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:21:23 -0600 (MDT)
> 
> Many computer users who are new to Emacs are accustomed to
> more-or-less Motif-like scroll behavior.  They often get completely
> confused by the current non-arrow Xaw3D behavior.  They think Emacs
> scroll bars are simply broken.  Most of them don't send bug reports.
> 
> By contrast, the old X users who are used to the xterm scroll bar
> commands will know how to cope if they get the Motif-like behavior.
> Even if they can't change it, they will figure out how to use it.
> They won't just give up and say "it's broken."
> 
> We need a way to make Xaw3D always deliver Motif-like behavior.

FWIW, I agree with this analysis and the conclusion.