From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:58:03 -0700 Message-ID: <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> References: <24436.53239.437810.270641@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25506"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: raman@google.com, thibaut.verron@gmail.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 21:58:55 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNiFb-0006Vf-AB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 21:58:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55394 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNiFY-00067D-Qu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 15:58:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53358) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNiEr-0005gW-IG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 15:58:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x442.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::442]:39922) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNiEp-00076T-Sw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 15:58:09 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x442.google.com with SMTP id n14so1932203pff.6 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:58:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:date:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references; bh=tL19xEMrdyU+I1dfpuE/b801icdZNcymQuXhTKaBjdU=; b=XaDvUCtO9WblgrcYpYHeBVDuOqZmyp8/iyVSNIC8E5tVVB6BTZyy3UkVVB+6vxkoVb dWMb7+fQNEAhLp/uEcia1xASC7UQW4fmNmd/xxcsEVhGQ6TDIrtmN0iQuwXpMR6vCv9z epvuPvSwWlhvGRAO41UIENAvfBeZPPrM1B8ownCFZA0MbR3p0NyLCibLBsCl7B0bHAl7 i++CIFziG46b1FxxywW82tcr89JkS2QYXJW/9y9IfCKGj9Ub1ftWtHmBipK2ZUIClC6R 1vTWUDZXBst4aqMqaI+CdGxb6OY+7osR+tT/1Ow0hQVy2kml0eS5DHX1yLETvnwAZb6t XwTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references; bh=tL19xEMrdyU+I1dfpuE/b801icdZNcymQuXhTKaBjdU=; b=etac4aV4bdoij6wHYKnwtAB7+RZvxKUsABIeIyn+pQSTGvIILjY0+cnTUD1mzU8aSX FqXtjkztzVyqwGrWeQ7xkE8N6/URpg1jaOCZnkuAYhhc5l1romXil2caLm/lDiY0s9Ya OcVzPAN8afZBt9NsW4S51lnmEoqGeQfZq1hLpxmitZGVD0V3s0ZQq8IJD3nf1vcfsZGn IUsxVAUB0JjYfYDxuNqINV5ssnttw/nq6GaTHac+S0T75eSZIHiRE5FIu6jOedJB9Cbz vjQCfcSxyT0DKDk1X+zLR861SzDmrJWghJ5Zf66NMRA+ZuMc+FI6Pv11aOQ5Uu+zt1YO RQAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531QSs7zQIH+nsGtyzYxpK+Zw1kUdVZzoO+z22fGQlu5B82tcN2y IZzZvoKGMOgpUZx8IGdK/e5v3Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyYVRlEFvSW8YS/+4JKSgrFjXc/50qjew8vaESd+kVA8pCwSXIOF5iJuXZtqgu1onj01Xb9+g== X-Received: by 2002:a63:3304:: with SMTP id z4mr3322897pgz.90.1601495885800; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from retriever.mtv.corp.google.com ([2620:0:1000:1510:7220:84ff:fe0f:a150]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ep4sm3012883pjb.39.2020.09.30.12.58.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by retriever.mtv.corp.google.com (Postfix, from userid 13930) id BC42118003B0; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 12:58:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.1.1 under 28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::442; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pf1-x442.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -180 X-Spam_score: -18.1 X-Spam_bar: ------------------ X-Spam_report: (-18.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.499, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256796 Archived-At: that's an interesting perspective. Am surprized that you feel tty users would find C-z z significantly harder than just C-z as the key to suspend Emacs. Stefan Monnier writes: > > Since keybindings are a strong emotional issue, I was hoping to > > divide and conquer the problem, i.e. first free up a new prefix ke= y, > > then experiment by putting a set of related commands on that key = -- > > rather than chasing our tails with arguments over which key to sta= rt with. >=20 > I think `C-z` is fair game in GUI but freeing it up for other uses i= n tty > mode will be a very hard sell. This leaves it as "free for GUI-only= > bindings" which makes it much less useful than a true "free prefix k= eymap". >=20 >=20 > Stefan >=20 >=20 > > Stefan Monnier writes: > > > > 1. C-z as a prefix --- at present c-z runs suspend-frame un= der X, and > > > > suspends Emacs on the console. > > >=20 > > > Then again, `C-z` is a standard binding for `undo`. ;-) > > >=20 > > > > Perhaps turn C-z into a new prefix key, and bind the above= commands > > > > to C-z z -- that gives us a whole new keymap to play with = for the > > > > future. > > >=20 > > > It's true that there's some logic to use C-z, C-x, and C-c for = standard > > > prefix keys. Yet, I think this can only make sense if we have = a clear > > > idea of what kinds of bindings we'd put into this prefix. > > >=20 > > > > 2. F2 is currently taken up by 2c (2column support) and pe= rhaps it's > > > > time to recover that key, I suspect 2c is not as heavil= y used to > > > > justify a common key like F2, and it would still have C= -x 6 > > > > dedicated to it if we take F2 away from it. > > >=20 > > > I agree that the binding of `f2` to `2C-command` can be dropped= =2E > > > Not sure what to bind it to instead, OTOH. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Stefan > > > > --=20 > > =E2=99=89Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =F0=9F=A6=AE=E2=99=89 --=20 =E2=99=89Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 =F0=9F=A6=AE=E2=99=89 -- ♉Id: kg:/m/0285kf1 🦮♉