From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Changing default mouse bindings Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 07:31:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <2441ffbe-dd5f-45f8-8c52-552a3d4a30d7@default> References: < <0ad9af94-11cc-4dae-841f-f2918342d1bf@default> <7f5a496c-1ea7-4f0c-a2f5-4e5307d7ee82@default> > <<87fu9heq03.fsf_-_@gmail.com> > <<86y3n83183.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp> <86lgj54xpd.fsf@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp>> <<838tf5id1e.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1510932725 4335 195.159.176.226 (17 Nov 2017 15:32:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:32:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: charles@aurox.ch, johnw@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, agrambot@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Eli Zaretskii , Tak Kunihiro Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 17 16:31:55 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eFicO-0000EQ-GM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:31:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46480 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFicV-0005w5-Ua for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:31:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41327) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFicN-0005qF-Lz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:31:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFicH-0000fC-M7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:31:47 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:39542) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eFicD-0000a8-SQ; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:31:38 -0500 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id vAHFVU1b024580 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:31:32 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vAHFVUXs027294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:31:30 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vAHFVUWr026262; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:31:30 GMT In-Reply-To: <<838tf5id1e.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4615.0 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220250 Archived-At: > I don't think binding this to mouse-3 by default can fly, > because it contradicts the usual GUI meaning of that > button related to selections, something that is honored > by all well-behaving GUI applications in the X world. > It would be unwise for Emacs not to comply. There is that. And there is the fact that in Emacs `mouse-3' does even more than usual with the selection (region). IMHO, the default Emacs behavior of `mouse-3' is a good one, even if too few Emacs users know about it and so make use of it. I don't see why we would change the default behavior (and I haven't seen any good argument here for doing that). On the other hand, letting users and libraries easily configure non-default behavior is a good idea. The _first question_, I think, is whether, in providing an easy way to do that, Emacs should at least encourage users and libraries to respect the existing default behavior. IOW, make it easy to show a `mouse-3' menu _without_ preventing the normal, default use of `mouse-3' to cut and extend the region. That's the approach taken in `mouse3.el'. I did not want to interfere at all with the normal behavior, and yet let users get any kind of menu they want. An approach to allowing customization that starts with just binding `mouse-3' to a menu does not accommodate the existing cut/extend-region behavior - it effectively just abandons that behavior. It lets you choose, only at configuration/customization time: menu or cut/extend-region. It doesn't let you choose interactively. It's not very Emacsy, in that respect. It has the "advantage", I suppose, of easily letting you _replace_ that behavior with a menu. It has the disadvantage of _only_ replacing it. If a user or library wants both the cut/extent behavior and a menu, au choix interactively, then they will need to bypass the provided customization mechanism and come up with their own complex code that does the job. It's easy enough to _add_ the possibility of replacing cut/extend behavior to something like what `mouse3.el' does (which is to preserve it). IOW, you can always impose a simple menu-only customization. But just _replacing_ with a menu should not be all we offer, in terms of letting you get a menu. I think the answer to this first question should be to allow customization but make it easiest to get a menu without interfering with the default cut/extend-region behavior.