From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: "T.V Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 09:46:51 -0700 Message-ID: <24271.60155.724466.802235@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> References: <871rnnvmdx.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnb7sira.fsf@red-bean.com> <87lflcg0k9.fsf@red-bean.com> <0f1cd319-fa8c-4453-b909-fdd36f337906@default> <87zh9scdf8.fsf@warpmail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="96748"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: raman@google.com, philip@warpmail.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, andreas.roehler@online.de, rms@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: excalamus@tutanota.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 28 18:47:31 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jeLgp-000P1l-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:47:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45854 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeLgo-00049U-9F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 12:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43534) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeLgH-0003fT-D9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 12:46:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1030.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030]:50293) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jeLgG-0002Lv-Hg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 12:46:57 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1030.google.com with SMTP id nu7so3463121pjb.0 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 09:46:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:date:to:cc :subject:in-reply-to:references; bh=y1V+nxdQfXNjlI6ALyz3aVwGBjuJce5qP4d179d5cUg=; b=lsixPO2jDQJuE+hVKb+058GErbuep6QP3ERVqRZUpAQSYC+6aShVRPuDRWNRn/vjmN vvOYeRa/HUUoiFOvUhyNMJrKitJrq4zls6DE94d5GiSjSa8S5QeRQMHBhGt5o3aMIbNQ 9qE6ITSYoVRUgWXTBW9J32tE5cPCrKysshpdtiCdvn8JTibDkir0qOhVpH5xUXuGlGJv PRIrOkHOUKd/9T4EdPY7q1oHCkcqdluWQbM7w7W0RMRfoadmTfZgQCjNzZSDliR8Cqz9 Hj+zDjcFOKteTyg8vhEz18YsJ5CEaikiC3+V/cEJE/hf/Gfy1PvuzNQRmhBJ7YwBDQo9 ooLQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:date:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references; bh=y1V+nxdQfXNjlI6ALyz3aVwGBjuJce5qP4d179d5cUg=; b=BkS7Dkqz5NAUajjpe47jYQ79W1T0PdwfSzu9Qy8EJMgAsBEnJEwmaOlZTIhIAEsdG0 VO+uCcr7OI9Dbf9ZyC51YM5NjO8vJv0utkBWllp5Z28amJGxu+2nh3YfzJHw8nsozLcI /5XE4PXjxYnnknHz/T6OITCQe5XsmA1wNmOHDJ1CgLFRrYj2WZRuKj1LgD+1lfJrkyqm QRezH7lVyOeLtUnQRYcmkjrNMJ0cyPqDmhQHEFV2UlXCppdDbqRi8I+lG/jzsYhtCBqT 9toxjZHPhzhJB4f5J+hwi+HbFS23K3gNXqgc/T0lZaSJaHVLmBCT6ytQmJgp9KatQBa1 JmVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+dB9aLubMWjNg4F8/orRLEVyrlyuNuwkX1VWcivkxyGc49C3o W4gmqwXwX8vPXWEtO97tLYlfdW0TR2E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzRQOXiWzjsm9g5lczlxzujp6aAqOpswjMmoOl5OWEXQ2ej+3PsLJdJtxLai6EymSdRDWJ7ug== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b608:: with SMTP id b8mr4287202pls.163.1590684414398; Thu, 28 May 2020 09:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from retriever.mtv.corp.google.com ([172.22.80.201]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v75sm6589250pjb.35.2020.05.28.09.46.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 28 May 2020 09:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by retriever.mtv.corp.google.com (Postfix, from userid 13930) id C432E1800412; Thu, 28 May 2020 09:46:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.1.1 under 28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030; envelope-from=raman@google.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1030.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -175 X-Spam_score: -17.6 X-Spam_bar: ----------------- X-Spam_report: (-17.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251560 Archived-At: emacs kbd commands -- and other well-designed ergonomic systems, eg vi's h,j,k,l for navigation are better thought of as muscle memory. The mnemonics are useful to learn, yes, but given the weird layout of the qwerty keyboard, rigidly sticking to mnemonics often leads to non-ergonomic keybindings. So it's always a choice --- does one wish to create a system that is "easy to learn" but painful to use, or one that "a little harder to learn" with the benefit of being extremely efficient in the long-run. I still think VI's nav keys are one of the best choices I've seen from an ergonomics point of view, but completely "unintuitive" for whatever "intuitive" means. excalamus@tutanota.com writes: > May 28, 2020, 12:04 by raman@google.com: >=20 > > "Philip K." writes: > > > > > > It's no more or no less intuitive than alt-F4 in "other platforms"= that > > people often label intuitive without thinking about it. > > > > And for the record, the insert/replace key is a carry-over from > > DOS word-processors of the early 80's. > > > >> excalamus--- via "Emacs development discussions." > >> > > writes:=20 > > > >>> What does C-g mean=3F Why the sequence C-g specifically=3F I thi= nk the > >>> disconnect may be that C-g appears outwardly meaningless. > >>> > >> > >> I always assumed it was because C-g, when inserted literally had = the > >> same value as does the ASCII bell (BEL, or '\a' in C) character. = When > >> you open the "ascii" man-page on G and BEL even appear on the sam= e > >> line. So in some sense it's like C-m/C-i, that do the same as > >> return/tab.=20 > >> > >> But I guess that's neither consistent, relavant or intuitive. > >> > These are excellent observations (and I always love the history I le= arn through being an Emacs user).=A0 Arguably, 'C-g' is one of the most= important keybindings/functions in Emacs.=A0 It's unfortunate that the= re's not a clear winner for a mnemonic.=A0 "Get out" or "Get away" is t= he best I can come up with for English.=A0 I tried translating the foll= owing possible interpretations to other languages (German, French, Span= ish) and "giro" ("turn" in Spanish, apparently) was the 'best'.=A0=20 >=20 > cancel > escape > abort > terminate > scrub > curtail > stop > discontinue > cease > counteract > redirect > avert > undo > disengage > avert > deflect > abstain > divert > reversal > turnabout > doubleback > turnaround > reverse > repeal > retract > annul --=20 Id: kg:/m/0285kf1=20 -- Id: kg:/m/0285kf1