From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: prevent raising a frame from also input-focusing it Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:14:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <23fc3a09-c51e-486d-b269-24c4441673ff@default> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417392908 1049 80.91.229.3 (1 Dec 2014 00:15:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2014 00:15:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 01 01:14:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XvEdm-0004nW-OR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Dec 2014 01:14:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52246 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvEdm-0004q6-AZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:14:58 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58480) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvEdS-0004pw-4o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:14:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvEdH-0002dU-Ly for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:14:38 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:29479) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XvEdH-0002dQ-F4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:14:27 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sB10EPU0028293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 1 Dec 2014 00:14:26 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sB10EOX2014642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Dec 2014 00:14:25 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sB10EOg9014629; Mon, 1 Dec 2014 00:14:24 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178553 Archived-At: > This is largely a function of the user's window manager (of which > there are dozens in active use), not emacs. >=20 > The reason that you haven't noticed it under MSWindows I think you misread what I wrote. I do notice, and always have noticed, it under MSWindows, which is why I set option `w32-grab-focus-on-raise' to nil, as I said. The case reported where this is a problem is not Windows but, IIUC, GNU/Linux. Which window mgr, I don't know, and you are right that a window mgr might not provide any hooks for Emacs to provide, say, an option similar to `w32-grab-focus-on-raise'. But has there even been an attempt to do that? > is that you (mostly) don't get a choice of window managers there. MSWindows has one window mgr, yes. But at least Emacs users on Windows have a choice in this matter, thanks to option `w32-grab-focus-on-raise'. > Presumably, whatever wm you're using under GNU/Linux (which > might be controlled by your MSWindows machine, for example if > you're using an MSWindows X Server) uses the behavior you like > by default. Not sure what you mean. It is true that when I use GNU/Linux (with Emacs 21), I am accessing it on a remote box from my Windows laptop, using, for example, VNC (or any number of other ways to connect, none of which I've found to be problematic in this regard). > Focus-on-raise is the default behavior of many window managers. > How to change it depends entirely on the wm in question. I expected as much, but I appreciate your reply. Can we not hope for Emacs to provide something similar to option `w32-grab-focus-on-raise' for other popular window mgrs? If Emacs Dev cared more about the use case of a standalone minibuffer, and frames in general, I expect that we could. Especially for an app such as Emacs that controls windows, frames, cursor movement, focus, etc. by keyboard, it makes little sense to suppose that the two different actions (from a user point of view) of (1) raising a frame and (2) input-focusing it should be coupled, with no easy way to uncouple them.