From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggested experimental test Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 16:00:44 +0200 Message-ID: <23a737db-66a1-166d-3e1d-aaf5f66bc457@yandex.ru> References: <87mtuxj8ue.fsf@gnus.org> <9088e12cb3de3d30abf1@heytings.org> <8735wnjsum.fsf@gnus.org> <83sg4n9jei.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efhx3e.fsf@gnus.org> <838s6f9g5d.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2efgg3w.fsf@gnus.org> <878s6fgdzu.fsf@gnus.org> <19c1ec9e-a97f-a8ab-b966-edadbc299c39@yandex.ru> <83mtuu8gdz.fsf@gnu.org> <87tup26om4.fsf@posteo.net> <831rc682js.fsf@gnu.org> <1bfef8b5-aa26-f64f-1e3b-06aabc9e9939@yandex.ru> <87pmzq6lvn.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15769"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 Cc: bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu.org, gregory@heytings.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 23 15:10:59 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lOhkI-0003xd-Q7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:10:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55648 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOhkH-0004te-7H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:10:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38088) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOhaa-0002jN-1b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:00:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::431]:44608) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lOhaT-0000Vx-BR; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:00:55 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id c8so7976060wrq.11; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:00:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8w2wO7J3j2rsLOmccQiLa4evhHzNszudxIxYk4/hM2M=; b=rXsUFFwev16iO9r59HaCBeJnLGozaOaH1RyqRUgGAz57zWtClgz3uWrgzKt4njNGzo ycY2TiHG3RswqY8HRbQ5vMmS+88YXdUnmwihPrEXlS6nN60gJ5R9lCfW3l6PgDZ9weXj O35Wkuz2C8oI7oynpIvhKXZmHZER/uIgoxbTRdnoPatboXVvM4CVGQM+tYM9oTeY8Qrj 04ksckLO4e7cFNFddtBHVgv0A8FH7BE+mZ8q4JpwnklUoyI4+aV8BhgxHUl0wDl9KTTz gVV3ZBrgd2fFBiJW/scXt87gmeW9KytpihrlZ08daJ/PAhGzfYKxrE2JHsZt6rI4wt1J EUSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8w2wO7J3j2rsLOmccQiLa4evhHzNszudxIxYk4/hM2M=; b=bx/MkPJhFnHmH+l5yfhaZp16arcpPsQph/0qQJ1IYw54Lchj1GG11oM6nXSBkxI/8b 6ZkEdCAuGSS4AvZvj6BM5/xW9CcufMYE9PZPZB/Wyzsv4EQ4ifgkVTG2QUsXXCTnejOx qSbYrwhU4BlhWxzuV7UOz97GcIaGW1wy3TZY2iGbYW+FmsFxuo0hobM0A0WfSrxRFgx5 tvhVdCrK+AAZ+ccup52z1mYSQTpiLNXydxWQgoRJdE9qVSzrjPP+cuqeMdd4wROlsed6 Dsti688V2hZvZk9Kv/ev8Ah7jHcUVIzEgfgqFleZ5bcYwqyqzsYRgU8vDAqcMd6/9in6 a59g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533eHOM7dMaZgHhNJX0fQaXIX/TzUTlG4w742hPwjZFHYnfKVWUw xHREKBovvmEY5dvAnSP1aHE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFftVEzpxrt32NEXpEcoMExHmANA4QYeWE2LvIQ1x357+lSO824kZNPSElnhaaXDnyPi/c2Q== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e64d:: with SMTP id b13mr4223571wrn.204.1616508047405; Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a131sm2791148wmc.48.2021.03.23.07.00.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Mar 2021 07:00:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87pmzq6lvn.fsf@posteo.net> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::431; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x431.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:266875 Archived-At: On 23.03.2021 15:27, Philip Kaludercic wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> On 23.03.2021 14:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> But eventually, the intent is to change the default behavior, because >>> rebinding any key to any command is already possible, and nothing >>> prevents users from doing that in their private init files. So >>> having a non-default theme that makes a bunch of such rebindings >>> makes little sense to me. >> >> I think the above is more important than the goal of making it a >> default (which might or might not happen in 10 years or so, if we end >> up reaching some critical mass of users who dislike Emacs's historical >> bindings). >> >> But even while the alternative keybindings theme is not the default, >> we would maintain it and keep it usable. Whenever we add something to >> the default set, we would consider adding a corresponding binding to >> that other theme, etc. > > You mean new default commands, right? Yup. Or other changes in the default set (moves, removals, replacements). >> Having an alternative, well-considered set of bindings which new user >> can just toggle on and get comfortable should be valuable. > > Yes, this was my understanding too. Ideally, the splash screen could > instruct new users how to change the UX theme, making it easier to get > comfortable. Some initial screen could do that, yes. Or at least we would tell about in the same places we mention cua-mode now.