From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again. 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That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256519 Archived-At: On 27.09.2020 05:42, Richard Stallman wrote: > > And even a personal incentive: nobody likes to answer the same questions > > again and again. > > > But it would have to be an official GNU initiative. Probably done by the > > one of the current Emacs maintainers, or some other people who still > > have the authority to make significant changes in Emacs. > > It is not useful to propose this in the abstract. An argument about > whether this is a desirable feature is not useful. If you propose a > concrete design, people can refine it through discussion, Then maybe > we can decide we would like it. This subthread is not about a particular feature, but about a service where you have to solve users' problems (for money; one-time or a subscription fee), and in the course of that become more familiar with the usual difficulties that they encounter. I'm not really sure it will take off given Emacs' waning popularity, but it sounds like something worth trying. Here's one potential client's message. https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/j04xxw/i_am_in_awe_of_emacs/g6pleve/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Quoting from there: >>> I would gladly make a monthly contribution to an "emacs accessibility" project I would also gladly pay for emacs setup consultation. Magit broke when I changed jobs and setup emacs anew. (I had my old .emacs but I wasn't meticulous about noting the version of emacs I was using at the old job and what versions of packages I had). I love magit and contribute monthly to their patreon (despite the fact that I currently can't use it). I've used emacs for over 20 years and love it. OTOH, every hour spent tinkering with emacs is an hour I'm not working on what I'm paid to work on. With my most recent job change I probably spent 1/2 a day (or more) getting emacs setup again. After spending that much time I probably won't re-attempt to fix magit (and other broken things) for another 6 months or more. What I want to use (and have "just work") is C/C++ language LSP // I currently use cscope and for C that is good enough. Meh on the ease of setup and having to periodically rerun cscope to update the symbols Go language LSP // I currently use go guru which is good enough programming lang auto-complete and highlight current symbol Org-mode // works great for me out of the box. magit!! // currently broken for me. I really miss being able to view annotated files with a keystroke gud // this works pretty darn well out of the box, even with golang's delve It would be great if, I could get my emacs environment set up just right create a docker image from said environment move that perfectly working emacs environment with me from job to job easily update the docker image with changes now and then My assessment is that this would requires too much up front work and the friction involved in updating the container with new changes is too high. It is great that emacs continues to be developed with new features added. I want that to continue, but what I really want that is missing is the ability to not waste time on emacs tinkering if I'm satisfied with my current setup and change employers. <<<