From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Instead of pcase Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 17:29:45 +0200 Message-ID: <21eda04f-b974-0c56-ce6c-4fc0810e4e13@gutov.dev> References: <87fs15kkk1.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jhi3qx3.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26203"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Cc: Jim Porter , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu , Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 20 16:30:57 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r56Eg-0006Tl-Pj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 16:30:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r56Dh-00011f-MU; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:29:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r56Df-00011P-KM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:29:51 -0500 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r56Dd-0000eZ-Mg; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:29:51 -0500 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786585C07F8; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:29:48 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:29:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t= 1700494188; x=1700580588; bh=Ebxpg0Ku0xvEilssz0xZ8a9r4I+Uw0Z3Ltc YJRJLIGk=; b=hCSpTlTQyvvpBKQAmpQOk50SwOhP3oit+Hvhi52VtmObsfZHLBD yTwAM4P1Iy9ZxKtEm24/IgnmRj2LPVc1LRixARKANrO3UXghNXjrClqtVgMu1XOr rJPocJXawSURqx+NT0w80J8fE3bi/p5s0B3mDHR0MNDAM5gYhCEaYfxFlnbiptKv S/X3WwkhMpsnajSFlACzjCS5LkCU5f+rl+zUo4Kv7DCoRL0wDkh5Sc52lz5REKl/ bzWh17M0J80bdNZ1W2yC7WE9PuGknDYQmxZ2Az82/uxsaU7U90+XRmMqawwvSMzG 28uLm2xvSXzNBd/eGs6m4pYG8/m8RnrpZoQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1700494188; x=1700580588; bh=Ebxpg0Ku0xvEilssz0xZ8a9r4I+Uw0Z3Ltc YJRJLIGk=; b=rXV8mPTnsfMDIwLmxy9S2owcQ98h5/tLmeAMG1oGngDDssAj+gY OaH2dnYrcKn+ZPOvIDPw1305WcDsSDLTXeRql9PDc8YZWGwFKKC0hloT+Y0nC7BA PiV9iAiNS/HSScU1tpwvm7AFkvGrbRNi2C0BXdjFxm5m6Dc8OC86flCa6tcRvCMA pAIEgXt/9vOdKkntQKOQCDhrJQauNdFUuZfBHwe1tMufxXvuJc3e/uquS01pSSU8 tSO8Kf9GZ+l2YENNpTnboTRSPiD88teMyXqsTMN4eiwIaJey2RERZIqULamRKUAu E0Q6TN7ZTKbBJoVoLT3Dknc0jPTLqvPSQXg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrudegjedgheduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtjeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeffmhhi thhrhicuifhuthhovhcuoegumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepiefgteevheevveffheeltdeukeeiieekueefgedugfefgefhudelgfefveel vdevnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepug hmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:29:46 -0500 (EST) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.25; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=out1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -67 X-Spam_score: -6.8 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-4.009, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313056 Archived-At: On 19/11/2023 16:29, Po Lu wrote: > My organization largely comprises C programmers who use Emacs for > programming, as a means to an end rather than an end in itself. Our two > sites centrally provision their own Emacs configurations to all users, > which incorporates a large corpus of code for editing and analyzing C > programs in accord with local practice. Naturally, the existence of > this corpus demands that programmers be charged with its upkeep, and as > no position is set aside for such work, this responsibility devolves on > individuals almost at random. This is a representative microcosm of the > wider Emacs userbase, I think: for most are not hobbyists, or even > employed programmers for whom programming is also an avocation, but men > working for salaries, with bills to pay and families to... you can > complete the rest of this trite description. And it is they whom I > canvassed. Polling professional C developers on whether they are comfortable with advanced syntax inspired by high-level languages like ML or Haskell is pretty much a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ask a company of OCaml developers (we have at least one representative of such among active contributors), or even a corpus of experienced JavaScript developers, the results will be different. Anyway, the results confirm what we've been aware of for some time: that the documentation for pcase needs work. Jim Porter's list of steps should help a lot.