From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GUI and redisplay work (was: SVG widget in GNU Emacs) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 21:00:23 +0200 Message-ID: <20449522.qtuQZUKTfC@galex-713.eu> References: <2531196.yyZDIors6o@galex-713.eu> <20211027171236.GA23938@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35265"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 27 21:02:56 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mfoCN-0008vO-RI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2021 21:02:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39346 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mfoCM-0006Xx-Ed for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2021 15:02:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34184) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mfoA9-0004Bg-Bt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2021 15:00:37 -0400 Original-Received: from portable.galex-713.eu ([2a00:5884:8305::1]:52604 helo=galex-713.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mfoA7-0007e2-Ec for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2021 15:00:36 -0400 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mfo9w-0007I8-ES; Wed, 27 Oct 2021 21:00:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20211027171236.GA23938@tuxteam.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8305::1; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:278032 Archived-At: Le mercredi 27 octobre 2021, 19:12:36 CEST tomas@tuxteam.de a =C3=A9crit : > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 06:07:53PM +0200, Alexandre Garreau wrote: >=20 > [...] >=20 > > All current Web engines derive from KHTML and Gecko, which are very > > old=E2=80=A6 wouldn=E2=80=99t the web engines in 2050 still derive from= them, given > > their age? > >=20 > > On the other hand, TeX has now=E2=80=99ve been around for half a centur= y, as > > long as emacs, and longer than the gnu (and nowadays main or even > > only seriously used) implementation of emacs [...] >=20 > Before you start re-inventing the world, if I were you, I'd have a > look at what is "out there" already. Perhaps to contribute to it, > perhaps to copy it, but just perhaps to learn from it on how to > do (or not to do) things: >=20 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_TeXmacs > http://texmacs.org/tmweb/home/welcome.en.html >=20 > I think Joris and the other (many!) contributors could share quite > a few stories... I know TeXmacs and since it initially enthusiastmed me a lot (iirc I even=20 talked a bit with its author during a GHM a decade ago), I several times=20 tried to use it but unfortunately my computer is too slow to run it=20 fluently, so I gave up trying. Moreover while WYSIWYM looked like a good idea orally, using TeXmacs was=20 at the same time more confusing than standard markup, and WYSIWYG=20 (although I typically use WYSIWYG only in a very very limited way), so=20 maybe the idea is just too innovative to be easy to grasp from a single=20 software that=E2=80=99s rarely used (I rarely typeset documents actually,=20 especially to print anything, and I prefer to take notes in text editors=20 because I don=E2=80=99t get margins nor slowness, I just compile them once = when I=20 export my exams to pdf). Also looks like it=E2=80=99s only a text processor with it own format, and = not a=20 general purpose editor, that could edit, say, HTML or TeX, or, most=20 importantly, its own config files, so it=E2=80=99s nor really like emacs, n= or TeX :/ And although it looks as good as TeX typographically, it=E2=80=99s younger = and=20 could be less stable, but I=E2=80=99m sure there could be good ideas and=20 experiment here=E2=80=A6 I just already don=E2=80=99t have the time and att= ention=20 capability to work on emacs as much as I=E2=80=99d like (so I still haven= =E2=80=99t=20 contributed anything), and TeXmacs would be lower priority for me. Also I=E2=80=99d like first and foremost to read and understand all TeX=E2= =80=99s and=20 Metafont=E2=80=99s source (especially as it=E2=80=99s heavily documented in= its own=20 favored way and made to be read that way), and understand how does GTK=20 works, before to try to understand some software that uses the later to=20 incompatibly mimmick the first. I still haven=E2=80=99t done that. And I = should=20 reread the TeXbook, but doing the exercises and reading the source at same= =20 time.