From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: etags name collision. Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:47:49 +0200 Message-ID: <20220411134749.ps6g5ulpbamzm6ot@Ergus> References: <20220411124736.3qijvtearh6wlen7.ref@Ergus> <20220411124736.3qijvtearh6wlen7@Ergus> <83pmln69n0.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25525"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 11 15:48:58 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nduPZ-0006Tq-AW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 15:48:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37612 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nduPX-00023o-U6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 09:48:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51058) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nduOd-0000tm-1u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 09:47:59 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic311-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.131.123]:34799) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nduOa-00043X-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 09:47:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1649684875; bh=1iaUp8O5WDfpE5yZ4rUYdshBJ6hYNUbj7SHfQUYFOww=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=aJGRS6xrl/hmo4nyhVCdlH2C60S9jJNG0o0HmevLuFjQGd5D3xaYR2uGCc9+D7gFp6NJsKPMaDQthOf1uwKG2IbuZQ3tmP09lIvnVdXZd98hI9XXXRy/WL2xzsXX6Uap0E9nsft5IjC8UYjnpRMd3mkc83cwwPc33Oqbt1mSdhxFclnXaf+y4s8gNb3Co7s65Ni4zoEE1xp8Wmkra2iAocSDhe4+X6DP2ryU27IT67PQKtwUW+bhKft0CUeyXwRA1om7sKQYEnvh/r2OUnJaLgVllPyPhSo/V1miVJJZAG7QAcqZsgm9XBpbOEd87JVmwA/sXZr8SqvKYjlfcp5nyQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1649684875; bh=mWG2oPz2pXgWJNXvBZDNz4/AIloWjlwZ807OZerrK8a=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=Kxm3FzUl0qw6GIHV66d2hdv8YGwvjYfbVJ8GTHcRORafOWKj27uHZamnoceuj2i1MAJIegPI0qEtsrfnW8v5WiGWkN//NLOG+QH8CV/JZqteHyFQJyIdGg/DoK+j+h7ydSWvnfi/jPpPluQKsI9XoktYxAXGFvcSNfje48U1HpJeFXhxKxjGD/+iTWPSx1s1WHWaru2HCwI1ZFSGfUx7xlIwIbSobzc6EUDxB1blxjQVYdBoQdtp2kz/dfzGxsMLWm9mlnUXwcRZvQSa6GhJ+f6+vVwIpcRHub2OFNOIMbfcl8+4PUoybdfKIeBAQvRf6M2faZkkvfr+NG93Ax+amg== X-YMail-OSG: 6p7thjEVM1ndty9Cd3cLPqbI.4tvlPhWVbPrEZx_PREEWsLFpWbnrmR4wGG.S76 riszD40.OxumcCi4a8UUhbarFbXbGj9cq4yFFQsjt0L3RGb55vx.0SQDgwl8LTBTdNs0wzXGaLpW 6WZ7VcOatHJWuCruQD3wYxEXJ4YsC6ubEd6XJmsl_PLaPqQDzjPOPAzRUdCMTfQCCwfW9mCwHovu hgOMRkfVh3Rsx_TYjSss1XDMsgHNMWk8scWrxYy.hQFih58d3wytbMrzltJWFv0b29iPTIDAcNyJ uicjSZEGxWlzyL43oxv5a.iczhWVDvJT3HyvIKCaWS.9V8ukOqSI6aIBjqPdfIZp_8g9J8WBCbMB tCYkpkwy9o.wp.tFeUQts_RoTEcfgFZFjr32XTxjm3s._BGPAy2jgjjiwr.PE_CtrLYm6HrK_qmw sJVL8L4L60zn8E6jsjnMeFsYjJXIUxIrGMM4uBscuqB36efjS50i9PScN.LLu5PvmHyfPCNs92gV CFII70I9G00Ov.REv8NZEOc.MsiAJrpcHX5ykOx1mjDEqqxTV3FpBaSId1xCwWPEZWjvZt8hNWnW hfx2gA9y1f_SFTlW1rQPmqjyDTgGil9N6UdaTNwjBWEB52AvDgR3MYEnWURuVlBbjmL29Kf7vbGg jtJY.bvo6RgENBXCORDJoKciMiaFQzh5yYhEka5jWLFWSXxueb6KhQ3htZSVc1p31Y8k5vxVprAb P59pm2leJZHKaXiqgjJFr1AIkfwAhEM3gbhLc0L1Zdq8JGdOrCNijorIcpayR1OE12nN804_Z8Ph ZNr10nDF6f2pLW7srUbHpWTa3rjjk9x8ztZNYfqnpJ X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:47:55 +0000 Original-Received: by kubenode514.mail-prod1.omega.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 7cb7a9c69aefb184fadeb5bcc19c52de; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 13:47:53 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83pmln69n0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20048 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.131.123; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic311-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:288202 Archived-At: Hi Eli: On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 04:18:43PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 14:47:36 +0200 >> From: Ergus >> >> 1) Why do we have etags+ctags executables so far they do more or less >> the same work right?. > >Because ctags produces tags table in a format understood by more >applications than just Emacs. > >> 2) Why do we create an executable with a name that is used by another >> very wheel known program. > >It's the other way around: ctags was a very old Unix program, and >Emacs developed a GNU version of that program. Universal ctags came >much later. So you should ask them why did they decide to use a name >that was already taken. > For whatever reason their version is much better, maintained and with more active development, support and people. It's free in all the senses and provided in some GNU/Linux distros by default or available in 100% of the repositories... so don't fight them, join then that did a good work stablishing as the standard. (Do one thing and do it right) >> 3) Could we consider to keep only etags and remove the ctags file in >> order to let the users to access. > >I don't see why we should remove a program just because someone who >uses an incompatible program by the same name should manage his/her >installations. A simple solution is for that user to not install the >Emacs version of ctags. > There is no consistent way to do that in many distros they don't have emacs users so they declare emacs incompatible with ctags and the user needs to choose. There is not even an option to disable the creation of ctags during emacs configure/build; so it needs to be removed every time. >> In general when the users want to use ctags I am pretty sure they refer >> to universal or exuberant ctags today... But also such executable create >> inconsistencies when using TRAMP and the support for languages like Rust >> or modern C++ is not good; so maybe an even more radical approach may be >> considered. Some distros like Arch Linux explicitly rename it to solve >> the conflict, but if we have etags already, do we really need the other >> executable? > >Emacs doesn't need ctags So we shouldn't provide ctags by default. It is like if the Linux kernel provide git and bash because they are useful. We don't have man power to maintain it and support all the languages and features Exhuberant or Universal do. But also in many distros ctags is actually provided by default. >but users might need it for working with >other development tools. > The users who use ctags they only know about the other versions like universal or exuberant; most of them don't even know that emacs provides a ctags version and it only causes troubles. At least could we condition the creation of ctags with a build/configure option?? Best, Ergus