From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 08:20:39 +0200 Message-ID: <20210907062039.GA4097@tuxteam.de> References: <8b4cf399-d1ca-8669-2a78-06813100b987@yandex.ru> <29c12300-db02-2770-e3f6-593998ea98fc@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16752"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 07 08:22:27 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNUV1-00049q-CX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 08:22:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58178 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNUV0-0000oc-7R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 02:22:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52340) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNUTR-0007qw-VR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 02:20:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:50223) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNUTP-0002zn-LG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 02:20:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=0MWArtlrmZSfxa3IwsQ7klQeBLxkQDrNd6h1w45FCvo=; b=hS4VrQ0EDM87z9CkpXoFwxQkIE6/DOnCRoUIgtP2Pb72ip6W3seMarg5pv4+0fDDrfq7Ss1lMrIW0dtf95lvx0rwpFCdm5ZYaGG5iGwnjA/aA+vuiLhNSSspwXHeijdqSTbUu95HVyMo3H2IuZi9/kA7vOxhh2gnLotf8Kdtt6FobjJhIOS0WFKUGvPvLY0K9s9FRxYYz8WNstu0h/1Yow8Kf1YIZeeac5kwbLPiYBybtlJFnwPSoohwy64BsKPkbBWwseMBzF7onaeP+1za7MnGegsNRkOTQu64Cxhc6GGxWtZkw2EQ1o6IOEo+qAbN55nNKyQP3JdKMjVqaYWTkA==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1mNUTH-0001M3-2J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 08:20:39 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274205 Archived-At: --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 07, 2021 at 06:44:07AM +0200, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Richard Stallman writes: >=20 > > > By the way, how much work would it be to switch C-x and M-x prefixe= s to C-space and > > > M-space respectively. > > > > We will not change C-x and M-x in the Emacs defaults, > > nor C-SPC and M-SPC. Those are important commands. > > > > It is ok for a CUA theme to change them. >=20 > This is completely backwards. It is precisely because it is important > that C-x should be changed. Or forwards. What would the C committee say if I proposed to exchange ',' and ';' in the syntax? After all, my keyboard (a DE layout) needs a shift to access the semicolon, which I use much more in C code than the comma [1]. I am a bit confused by this default thing, especially by this new incarnati= on of a "defaults war". Each time it feels like a turf war. OTOH, it is clear that defaults aren't carved in stone. On the other, it should be clear that defaults change slowly wherever there is an established community of users, and each one takes its process and its timing. It may take years, and a couple of proofs of concept. Tab-indent mode looks like low hanging fruit by now (but there have been voices against changing it which have to be taken seriously). I don't really see the point for C-x now, but hey, that's me. A set of defaults is, whenever there is an established community, pretty much like a language. A language evolves, but it takes its time. And might not always evolve to your liking. Cheers [1] Strictly speaking that's a lie, since the comma separates args and thus is probably more frequent than the semicolon, but I hope you get the idea. - t --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAmE3BLcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kbWoACfQsdiMktFOuAugptJBtHOMfUN eIcAn1cHhnuC5/TlO44iKJcm+5VAXxMZ =WmT8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bp/iNruPH9dso1Pn--