From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 10:25:08 +0200 Message-ID: <20210827082508.GC5381@tuxteam.de> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <87o89kw0hl.fsf@gnus.org> <0c369b25-aedd-1fdf-4813-503f27e42c7c@yandex.ru> <874kbbznwv.fsf@gmail.com> <8735qvwcqt.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MnLPg7ZWsaic7Fhd" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37391"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 27 10:25:53 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJXBP-0009R3-Qb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 10:25:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48222 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJXBO-00010V-HY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 04:25:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36314) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJXAn-0000Iq-3r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 04:25:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:46092) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJXAk-0002hu-6J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 04:25:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=/r9axDtpHKHURR3VggpqFh2z9WKuqAU/WOqLml8LIl0=; b=IKy3Dxh5n/2ocp95qOwT/kZrdEOgGS7MYT4OKQl6kGDYFREhagVV6NGPbanBERHEiq5MPoowjef4cuYMiWT+2h4IzvL3pZMKCHgFOuA3cFJCtLlK6TJH2ezD5RDDVuO1s8hsAg23fuGJ7hlio+8bcrrCxrdfMBnqGGLnewqx48reMVLs/6DPAHg5aRyJdkvmp+eKlhzmPnpZeHoVe7AmuR9eCfBbdaUVE6KrLosSEpu4Vf2M0FxquTWibFxYZnA/h5xuJCRL9xThI+Z8S8h6ci/b3oNZazzRA65AVPE1lJr5q4qWSAJRwZE3ysUtr5zk0/2s/FKNqJHHN7GQ33EhuA==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1mJXAi-00021r-3R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 10:25:08 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8735qvwcqt.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273137 Archived-At: --MnLPg7ZWsaic7Fhd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 05:34:26PM +1000, Tim Cross wrote: [...] > Yep, that mirrors what I'm seeing as well. Many younger users really use > it primarily to provide a unique identifier (login) and for when they > have to deal with institutions that don't provide other alternatives. I think part of the rush is nudge pressure applied by the Big Ones. It's not possible to monetise mail in the same way as it is possible to do with whatsapp, tiktok, twitter and the uncountable more or less "secure" messengers popping up here and there. The nice thing about those communications platforms (nice from the perspective of the venture capitalist) is that there's no separation of platform and UI, so they get direct control of the user's perception. I opt out of that. Count me in whenever there is a platform which separates transport and clients the way mail does and has at least some choice of client applications with a perspective of diversity. > The other interesting trend I'm seeing is with many companies now > working to minimise email as part of their internal/external workflows. > Many companies are finding it a huge resource sink, cause of unnecessary > stress/pressure on staff, source of significant security concerns and a > real problem for records management. I have watched this process around the 2010s in one company. The decision was made at top level (they were convinced by some Microsoft=20 salesperson [1] to switch to Office 365 instead of mail, because... mail is old). Today, they still use mail, but have outsourced their whole communications infrastructure to Microsoft, GDPR be dammed. The resource sink, stress and pressure stemmed rather from that change, for those who had to use that "new" platform (not to talk about staff layoffs for the old sysadmins, but I disgress). Those having taken the decisions didn't have to use O365, they have secretaries. For them, it was success. This may sound like an off-topic rant, but I'm serious. Not all of this "mail is old" meme is for real. Some of it is propaganda (I emphasise: /some/ of it). So we should take each critique and address it one by one. To put it in other words: I won't pay a wholesale-ish "mail is old" argument. I want to have more solid stuff. Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%ADma - t --MnLPg7ZWsaic7Fhd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAmEooWQACgkQBcgs9XrR2ka70QCfbdKBOu+aqfUxkxHgyZqKWkwu XtgAn2/5canPDX9VPaKQ2njGbDjC4YGL =s0MX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MnLPg7ZWsaic7Fhd--