From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Add a configure option for NATIVE_FULL_AOT? Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:04:09 +0200 Message-ID: <20210819070409.GB13517@tuxteam.de> References: <834kbo6xm5.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgtg3x4i.fsf@wavexx.thregr.org> <83zgtg57jv.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1er3oqr.fsf@igel.home> <83lf4z6hh0.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1er8b3e.fsf@igel.home> <87tujm4ut1.fsf@wavexx.thregr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35982"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 19 09:05:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mGc6v-00096c-8n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:05:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37190 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGc6t-0004KI-1t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 03:05:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46214) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGc62-0003am-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 03:04:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:50438) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGc5z-0002zE-JL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 03:04:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=4PNPxeDoy1bMEdCXDD4IS9z/KVX5HX4CyNHUlrbsBSg=; b=e5tdZpjYebgs9Mc7GydVDo/lK3HWd0DNRf3rDZcrmJYokuU0p1rqOYfcuxTiyz2SchAVN29ndNTq3bztkgydkPorr067S5srilC/bmn7/99FsVsMKngLRpiIweG6jNz3AAYPSKT4+3h6LnCrzBIUyKuZajNVOJ87EXvbU8/6rZRq0mnBb6jEAoRpzc5X19+CtpOhM+OnsIj65Gip6tbcGAcOknC/uhFsgcUPVYux3JMiyXJOu6PSLEfG60IPHd4oCs3blMaWbsQOxo/ww8aBkC1srvx/l/e6Ar2eWVlLMvhepT1YnPcaE66igCUHl5C2MC+25XEcS/3wcuK2Z1W8Xw==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1mGc5x-00045j-Bc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:04:09 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272637 Archived-At: --yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 02:57:55AM +0200, Arthur Miller wrote: > Yuri D'Elia writes: >=20 > > On Wed, Aug 18 2021, Andreas Schwab wrote: > >> On Aug 18 2021, Arthur Miller wrote: > >> > >>> Sorry, I picking on it, I know that most of distributions do so, but > >>> that is unfortunate practice against the nature of Emacs as applicati= on, > >>> since Emacs comes with sources as fully modifiable and extendable > >>> editor. > >> > >> Nothing prevents you from reading and modifying the lisp files. > Y > > I don't want to add anything which hasn't been said by others already, > > but just point out that the way that emacs is packaged in debian is > > actually pretty nice and convenient for many users, especially in a > > multi-tenant setup. > I haven't seen a Debian since somewhere around 2001 or something, so I > really don't know how they do. But I think that many distros put elisp > in /usr/share which is not user modifiable location by default. Basically, this is the FHS. /usr/share is for architecture-independent, mostly immutable [1] stuff. Scripts written in some scripting language. Timezone data. Bytecodes. That kind of stuff. The idea of separating arch-independent and arch-dependent stuff stems =66rom old times where disk space was at a premium and you wanted to share one /usr via NFS in your heterogeneous network. A kind of deduplication, if you like. But in these days of emulators, cross-compiles and cross-builds it does reveal a big potential. With qemu and some luck I can run things meant for a Raspberry Pi on my AMD64 laptop [2] and share... my /usr/share, which is kind of nifty :-) > I am trying to see what Emacs uses by default choice [...] [...] Actually those are the things the FHS developed from. And yes, by default /usr/local makes sense: that's where you want to have the stuff installed when you compile things yourself: the distro won't touch them. But it provides infrastructure for you to use them. Have a look at your default $PATH: you'll typically see "/usr/local/bin" before "/usr/bin". There are many, many places where this precedence of /usr/local before /usr is encoded. /etc/ld.so.conf*, as another example. > > I definitely see the same concept being extended to AOT and being a net > > advantage in such cases. >=20 > A problem with Emacs is that, there are different cases for different > users, which sometimes even get orthogonal to each other so it can be > hard to make everyone happy att same time. Definitely. Not only different users, but also different usages. My system has about 2k packages installed. Some of them I barely know by name. I'm infinitely thankful to the Debian Developer who keeps them happy and humming for me. Others are my pets, I download their source, learn their build quirks (Emacs is one of them, you guessed). Those go to /usr/local :-) Cheers [1] During installation & updates all bets are off :-) [2] A bit more of effort is needed, of course, like Debian's Multi-Arch, which splits /usr/lib into /usr/lib/, but I think it's totally worth it :-) - t --yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAmEeAmkACgkQBcgs9XrR2kbBwgCeIL5lfrSpU9nZgMlCgxjc6TNX ZjgAnjZuXfhadK8YuXVHlVp6C6pXoQBh =dG+4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX--