From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 08:04:18 +0300 Message-ID: <20201012050418.GZ2923@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <30addebe-999b-c1cc-a8d8-27aba3fac566@gmx.com> <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <20201011073553.GA6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201011120840.GC2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201011125031.GC6784@odonien.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30731"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Thibaut Verron Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 07:06:19 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kRq2M-0007qk-3U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 07:06:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33864 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRq2L-0008TS-5M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 01:06:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39412) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRq1a-0007zF-GT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 01:05:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [95.85.24.50] (port=58133 helo=static.rcdrun.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRq1Y-000864-Eu; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 01:05:30 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.35]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002A0B3C.000000005F83E415.00004DA6; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 05:05:24 +0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 95.85.24.50 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/12 00:11:15 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 4 X-Spam_score: 0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257443 Archived-At: * Thibaut Verron [2020-10-12 06:33]: > > > > > Even if it contained non-free software, this is beside the point. What > > > use is a survey if it doesn't strive to accurately capture the status > > > quo and instead basks in ideological purity? > > > > That's not a fair description of what we are doing, so it is a misled > > criticism. > > > Just as a reminder, here is what the email starter suggested: > > > a survey for Emacs users to better grasp the diversity and various usages > out there > > There is nothing about taking practical decisions or encouraging free > software (or anything) there. Every opinion poll survey has a purpose, normally the purpose is to find out what majority wish and want to improve the product or service and thus reach or gain more customers, strike it, users. - Encouraging free software is within the context of GNU Emacs subject. - Encouraging or supporting usage of non-free software is not within the context. Thus the survey or opinion polls cannot be evaluated in the manner to encourage usage of proprietary software, it is vice versa. Those opinions vouching for proprietary software would or should be enlightened of the benefits and safety of free software. A survey from the context of GNU Emacs development naturally should involve questions related to free software as the purpose of Emacs was historically to distribute free software, https://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.html > Would it be acceptable to put all major package repos in the list, > with a warning saying that melpa is not a free software repository? Are there many package repositories? I know of three, there will be fourth soon elpa.nongnu.org or similar. They do provide free software naturally as packages should be GPL so far I understand (not sure), but if they wrap non free software or have pointers to non free software, such recommendation would be contrary to principles why GNU Emacs have been made as free software. > The same warning could be used when mentioning windows, non-free > IDEs, etc. Warning you mention is used on Emacs download page, see https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html