From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 23:33:47 +0300 Message-ID: <20201011203347.GU2923@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <30addebe-999b-c1cc-a8d8-27aba3fac566@gmx.com> <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <874kn2sdss.fsf@iki.fi> <20201011103235.GA28425@protected.rcdrun.com> <87362ka9zm.fsf@posteo.net> <669a490e-c037-489c-878e-842e5b7e68a3@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20288"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) Cc: "Philip K." , Adrien Brochard , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 11 22:36:43 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kRi5D-0005BI-CP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 22:36:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50134 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRi5C-0001Gf-Aq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 16:36:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57226) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRi3l-0008Hx-Jv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 16:35:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [95.85.24.50] (port=53997 helo=static.rcdrun.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRi3j-0005DJ-PH; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 16:35:13 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.35]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002A0B38.000000005F836C7B.00006DDA; Sun, 11 Oct 2020 20:35:06 +0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <669a490e-c037-489c-878e-842e5b7e68a3@default> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 95.85.24.50 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/11 13:16:16 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 4 X-Spam_score: 0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257412 Archived-At: * Drew Adams [2020-10-11 22:48]: > > > My proposal on how to publish a survey is to include that in the Help > > > menu, and let people do it straight from Emacs. That is similar to bug > > > reporting, but it is not a bug, it is feature request. > > > > But if you have to have mail configured, you're also only going to have > > a specific subset of all users. > > Nothing _limits_ input to email. That's all we handle today, and we > should at least continue to handle such input. But if we want to > entertain supporting other input methods (smoke signals... > whatever), that's not impossible. Is hard for me to understand the above. Let me say that trends changed, there are now more people using Internet, and there are more people using Internet without email or not knowing what email does, or having email, but never using it and not knowing what it does, including people having email and using it exclusively on their mobile devices, not knowing they can use it from computers. Suspicious is also Windows and other systems but Unix-like systems, I did not try, I just don't know how would report-emacs-bug function on Windows, I doubt it is well integrated. I would just make it as a form, either as Emacs forms from forms.el library, plus some POST to URL, or as HTML form by using eww. In such form, user could enter email, but if user does not have email, need not enter such, neither the name. User could still communicate, it would be one way, but better some opinions then none, hey. > > I think the idea of having a survey that could be filled out from Emacs > > is interesting (although we would only get to hear from current users, > > not previous users). But it would have to work regardless of what the > > user has configured or not. From what I see, that would either mean a > > web form that can be filled out using EWW or a package that could be > > downloaded from ELPA. > > It's not only either/or. > > The point of the suggestion was to leverage the existing > `report-emacs-bug' input of general, free-form feedback. Where > "leverage" also means encourage. And that in turn means new names > (command alias, menu items,... whatever) and some new description > (e.g. rework the wording of the existing bug-reporting > instructions). Not sure, I would leave report-emacs-bug in place, and add feedback or suggestions with different wording, including access to friendly mailing lists and IRC channel. So far fastest way to get live help for Emacs is IRC.