From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: philipk@posteo.net, rms@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com,
emacs-devel@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, jamtlu@gmail.com,
eduardoochs@gmail.com
Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2020 16:54:40 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20201004135440.GA15516@protected.rcdrun.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83tuvae00i.fsf@gnu.org>
* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2020-10-04 13:53]:
> > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2020 13:07:19 +0300
> > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > Cc: philipk@posteo.net, rms@gnu.org, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
> > dgutov@yandex.ru, jamtlu@gmail.com, eduardoochs@gmail.com
> >
> > > I think we should let the user decide whether such risks are relevant
> > > in each and every case, and whether these risks, if they exist, are
> > > worth taking.
> >
> > Universities are often off-line, something impossible for you to
> > imagine in the US, is very realistic in East Africa. Students may be
> > prevented having mobile phones, but not prevented having
> > computers.
> >
> > In too many countries Internet is not easily available or accessible,
> > and is too often too expensive for even normal people to access it how
> > they want it.
> >
> > > We explain these issues on the FSF site, so the considerations and
> > > the risks are well known.
> >
> > They may be well published by FSF, but they cannot possibly be known
> > to general public as referencing and finding articles is not easy. It
> > is well known to smaller group of people who are fans of FSF and the
> > website.
> >
> > > We can explain this again in our documentation where relevant. This
> > > way, we can consider users informed and capable of making their own
> > > decisions.
> >
> > I have totally different impression. So many times I am explaining
> > friends and associates about this subject, I am talking face to face
> > to people I know, majority of people are not aware of any risks in
> > networking. That is greatest problem in our society right now. In my
> > opinion with technology development, society will become dumber 100%
> > within only next 5 years, so avoiding unsecure networking and making
> > people aware is necessity of today.
>
> What exactly are you arguing for? That we forcibly prevent users from
> using on-line access where it is available and reasonably fast, just
> because in some parts of the world Internet access is nonexistent, or
> because there are risks associated with using Internet? Such
> enforcement makes no sense to me. We should treat our users as
> responsible adults.
Noo.
I am suggesting to assume the planetary view point, not only western
developed view point.
No, I did not say to prevent users. I am suggesting to help users
download resources and use them offline.
We cannot say that in some parts of the world Internet access is not
as good, rather we shall say in the majority of the world.
I am saying that it is not optimum for Emacs and accessibility of
users to assume that users will be able to have those network
connections.
Please compare the Kiwix project: https://www.kiwix.org/en/ that
brings various Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Gutenberg and other resources to
those areas which are cut from Internet. There is reason for their
project, and it is of strong humanitarian character.
Also observe this statistics of Internet users:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users
Compare the number of Internet users to population on that table. In
Germany 86% of Internet users, while in Ethiopia 18.62% Internet
users, and country has population of 104 millions which greater than
Germany of 82 millions.
> We've already agreed to look for local resources first, and only fall
> back to remote servers if the local resources don't exist. So I see
> no reason to continue arguing here if you are saying we should prefer
> local resources. And if you are really saying that we should forcibly
> prevent remote access because our users don't know what they are
> doing, then it's so far away of everything I believe in that any
> argument will be futile.
No, I did not say, why force people not to use Internet? I am not that
crazy.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-10-04 13:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 292+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-09-26 13:38 How to make Emacs popular again James Lu
2020-09-26 13:47 ` Pankaj Jangid
2020-09-26 13:50 ` James Lu
2020-09-26 13:59 ` Philip K.
2020-09-26 14:53 ` Ergus
2020-09-26 16:59 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 18:26 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-27 2:41 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 13:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28 3:45 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28 23:29 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28 23:51 ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-09-30 4:37 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-30 5:26 ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-10-02 3:45 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 4:43 ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-09-30 10:03 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 4:14 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 7:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-01 8:11 ` Philip K.
2020-10-02 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 16:02 ` dict - " Jean Louis
2020-10-03 2:56 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03 7:47 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-10 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03 9:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:21 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 4:14 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:22 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-30 13:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 4:13 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 13:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 14:39 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 15:11 ` tomas
2020-10-01 16:15 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:30 ` tomas
2020-10-02 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:46 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-10-01 16:21 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-02 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 7:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-02 10:11 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2020-10-02 16:13 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-02 16:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-02 16:33 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-03 7:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 3:45 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04 7:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-10 7:24 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-10-10 7:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10 12:22 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-10-04 8:56 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 16:07 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-03 2:56 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03 8:28 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-02 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 7:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04 6:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 9:02 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 9:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-05 3:14 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-05 5:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-06 2:34 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04 8:25 ` Dictionaries better be offline - " Jean Louis
2020-10-04 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04 7:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 10:07 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 10:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 13:54 ` Jean Louis [this message]
2020-10-04 14:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-05 3:12 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-10 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-11 5:37 ` How to make Emacs popular again: Use monospaced fonts less Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 6:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 6:35 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 7:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 10:54 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 11:28 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 13:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 22:21 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-12 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-13 0:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13 14:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 4:03 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 17:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-14 17:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 22:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 13:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 14:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 14:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 15:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 16:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 16:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 18:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 18:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 6:51 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 12:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 14:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:07 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 5:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 13:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 22:14 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 23:39 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-12 16:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-13 0:35 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13 14:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 4:01 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 14:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 13:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 14:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 14:35 ` Teemu Likonen
2020-10-11 15:21 ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-11 18:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 18:58 ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-11 19:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 19:42 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-11 19:56 ` Stephen Berman
2020-10-11 21:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 22:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 22:50 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-02 21:06 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-02 22:33 ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-03 21:05 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-03 21:06 ` Roland Winkler
2020-12-03 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-12 9:47 ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-12 11:17 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-12 17:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-12 11:24 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-12 16:30 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-12 23:02 ` Tim Cross
2020-10-13 0:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13 6:02 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-13 20:00 ` Juri Linkov
2020-10-13 20:36 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-14 4:05 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 7:06 ` Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-10-14 7:09 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 7:46 ` Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-10-14 7:53 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 8:30 ` James Cloos
2020-10-14 9:14 ` tomas
2020-10-14 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 8:03 ` Juri Linkov
2020-10-14 16:38 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-15 6:45 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 13:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-12 2:19 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 7:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-12 13:23 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-12 15:27 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 16:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-12 17:29 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-13 7:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 3:13 ` Robert Weiner
2021-04-19 7:12 ` tomas
2021-04-19 7:55 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-04-19 12:31 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 12:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 8:27 ` How to make Emacs popular again Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:08 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 15:01 ` James Lu
2020-10-01 15:03 ` James Lu
2020-10-01 16:13 ` GNU Dico - " Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:29 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-01 16:39 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 16:41 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:55 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-01 16:44 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 15:19 ` tomas
2020-10-01 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-01 16:07 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 19:15 ` chad
2020-10-02 5:41 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-29 8:08 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-09-29 11:40 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-30 4:37 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 16:30 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 16:51 ` James Lu
2020-09-26 18:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-27 2:42 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 8:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 16:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 17:36 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 18:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 18:58 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 19:26 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-26 19:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 21:04 ` James Lu
2020-09-27 2:42 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 6:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-27 2:42 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 7:32 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-27 7:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-28 22:25 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-29 14:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-29 15:14 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-20 13:22 ` Arthur Miller
2020-10-20 15:46 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-27 4:14 ` Arthur Miller
2020-10-27 7:15 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-22 14:09 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-22 14:18 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-28 3:44 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 19:27 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-27 2:41 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 2:41 ` tooltip feature Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 9:42 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-27 10:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-27 10:29 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-27 16:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-29 1:07 ` chad
2020-09-27 17:31 ` How to make Emacs popular again Bob Newell
2020-09-27 20:31 ` James Lu
2020-09-28 3:52 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28 6:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-28 22:00 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-27 20:38 ` James Lu
2020-09-27 20:40 ` James Lu
2020-09-28 0:52 ` Bob Newell
2020-09-28 2:48 ` 황병희
2020-09-28 18:12 ` James Lu
2020-09-28 5:27 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 21:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-10-07 8:58 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-07 11:21 ` João Távora
2020-10-07 14:28 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-08 4:42 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-08 9:27 ` João Távora
2020-10-09 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-08 14:05 ` Georges Ko
2020-10-08 14:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-09 3:32 ` Lists of symbols in the Lisp Manual Richard Stallman
2020-10-08 14:22 ` How to make Emacs popular again Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 14:29 ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-08 14:54 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 15:00 ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-08 15:22 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 18:08 ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-08 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 20:45 ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-08 20:49 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09 6:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 21:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-08 22:06 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-08 22:36 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
[not found] ` <efa8dd80-e172-4b16-9052-1aaa027c14d9@default>
[not found] ` <834kn37v3p.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-10-09 15:25 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09 6:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-09 7:38 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-09 9:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 20:38 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 20:39 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:01 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 22:21 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:33 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 22:47 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 23:13 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-09 22:50 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-10 0:51 ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-10 2:15 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-10 8:52 ` Michael Albinus
2020-10-10 16:20 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 20:45 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28 18:12 ` James Lu
2020-09-30 18:44 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-30 20:51 ` Mathias Dahl
2020-10-01 18:51 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-26 17:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-28 5:16 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-28 11:11 ` Ergus
2020-09-28 21:52 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-28 9:00 ` How to make Emacs popular again [or less square] Po Lu
2020-09-28 9:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=20201004135440.GA15516@protected.rcdrun.com \
--to=bugs@gnu.support \
--cc=dgutov@yandex.ru \
--cc=eduardoochs@gmail.com \
--cc=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=jamtlu@gmail.com \
--cc=philipk@posteo.net \
--cc=rms@gnu.org \
--cc=spacibba@aol.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).