From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 14:45:13 +0200 Message-ID: <20200929124513.fd745r2txowwbiir@Ergus> References: <87eemuanct.fsf@red-bean.com> <20200924013655.asv2tem25cbwv5et@Ergus> <2ACED303-9A2C-4363-BE56-2E9AF0B8DC85@posteo.net> <20200925002239.fgg3vw2nylltcoyp@Ergus> <219042AC-556D-48CC-8920-82D9BF2BD3AA@aol.com> <3A81FB67-A558-4281-8285-CDD9B01033E3@posteo.net> <1C949FC9-6023-467E-99EC-75D57B08AFB0@gnu.support> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33850"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Noam Postavsky , Fermin , Karl Fogel , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 29 14:55:14 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNFA2-0008hm-7i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 14:55:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45306 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNFA1-0006TE-9y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 08:55:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54446) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNF0e-0004DS-3s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 08:45:33 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic309-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.129.123]:38726) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNF0Z-0001Rl-If for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 08:45:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1601383524; bh=rNmeXjmbplJ/h2f7Dg4eILuADbkb4tQqwJuJqrshiKk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=VKVdyaLLh5tl8yohQiSZCqo4DdFk0Cdtph9/qSz15DilouwhQ9KrM5NY3WWCjdgLZAuITTrdnIz5knDryzTCK3/HCkiz58xeJirpLE6Gf/anGNiPtTG02+ps8M7FK36n7B79mWoZQW9NEXtSwGUW/t37vDdCcJ2O2Io+t4f2SX907RjauP6aPl3n4YGMr6SdQ3Rp/VOB7a+eUgz3r3NkL5MPvCTAY+rr8Jo9pnI2hlTvBu7sAZfJGaaGJA14PY3hQoTccrWNNohvrQnVD7YelJXAjrKs6OvWmCu9vYk1/UwXnwINMPbyB2yHbbx4Yum7nEhr4Q9zZW5iuh5EXgYdvQ== X-YMail-OSG: sGUB1iEVM1kT_S6bYT6J06N3kL1WxAcCViZVP7ImZLNbEyVDuTZhh0B35pPtsFm MJKwl1C8Ny3xjOJqZiOgqEiZNfFBiWUIGm_oQKgWPBVtPzTyLfM7UU0p24xCmPzh9e.FAqiUyB4J _JAIM5aOmraAYTjs3nXDWEJ5e6VuBqws.SMd5n7DGLzYj0KRD2twhLeMAFGHEE3lW.b8wfKwFpa4 LP03V5wg9N03kF_Iu.McQKXTJE8W66VfeSijIHuBxOBN9Qca6haQeSi6ATUpWOKdnCDd1F4MkEmf p0bnCmdxLozZEMKoMCCqBhpX4U3u7.ToWmkS6JPuwG1dL_4na.V1Pbxr7XZzc.5LbCEmQc8Ar.rW BkwRJdfVDg.VjyCMZKtIGEhUkr2dRr0mAySwzsN_b6ulMu18xgVnzFMBRz7dqAIB8EeeOCI38J8c spzSZlYTRt.huBnsUvyAQvnm0lUpD0E0bqya5f1rwrIVSJy4fwKMdSA.3c5E84MKUvBAFlKxD3qF vvnouKa.X43qG7oWkZQ31XrOBLgJc4Pr7hz2yac.34lVSAyBdMfBsxaf.JgUsj3MjD_42N7ullPI 2mlqyLhDHISBw1k8u3crHWqB3Y5L07zxizsb53qtrnw8YfLdlZaZnb1DwwjFSIkRmE1WehuVe3OZ pDyThY9OrgaWX_EPCZN6gyK0LhEnq4WmHWXgykphMDwPPH54fG90rCVeZB.IjAci7y5FxnI8tRAW k_cdUp0lwEcCyEUjUJki9l78Wga2VndIHEc6TjlKaMvUs9HjUpjXL5ppSmIuXsi7kfpWkdCbP9Xs 3hA5YAkigjIo8AO9bjJi0yIrkI0rlUrQ5mf7q3Le9k Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:45:24 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp417.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 74ee23144969e81f1769344737243ea1; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:45:21 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1C949FC9-6023-467E-99EC-75D57B08AFB0@gnu.support> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16674 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.129.123; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic309-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/29 08:45:24 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -26 X-Spam_score: -2.7 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.614, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256687 Archived-At: On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:25:01AM +0000, Jean Louis wrote: >Collaboration in Emacs should be native, as that is often used feature >by many users of spreadsheets online, many of them use online services >and collaborative spreadsheet without two reason for spreadsheet, they >want collaboration primarily. > >I would like to see something like separate switch out function that >launches internet exposed server with carefully selected and authorized >files for collaborative editing. > Rudel used to do something like that... Not sure how exactly. >That would give freedom from proprietary software to many users. But this has 3 main problems. 1) On one hand such services require some servers (to work like google spreadsheet) and need to be provided somehow... something difficult as I don't think gnu or fsf have resources to maintain a service like that and provide it. 2) On the other hand it will be better if the service is somehow distributed in order to give more privacy-security but also to reduce the load of the servers... I still can't find any infrastructure we can use, cause most of the peer-to-peer libraries are for C++, javascript, Node.js and so on (example: webrtc). Just on yesterday I found n2n... But I am not a web specialist so it requires a lot of experimenting time for me. 3) The other workflow (create a local server for others) is the "simplest" approach at the moment. But that is a problem for many use cases due to dynamic ip addreses, firewalls, opening ports and so on. It is fine for a class room or company, but not for working from home.