From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Vasilij Schneidermann Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:36:07 +0200 Message-ID: <20200929103607.GA181871@odonien.localdomain> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7597"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs-devel To: Thibaut Verron Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 29 12:38:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kND1L-0001tb-J3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:38:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54096 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kND1K-0003ML-Ke for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 06:38:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50778) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNCzg-0002M1-M9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 06:36:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mout-p-101.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.151]:62552) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNCza-0007Jt-Jp; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 06:36:23 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [80.241.60.240]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-101.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C0wly1RVyzKmfn; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:36:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at heinlein-support.de Original-Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org ([80.241.60.240]) by spamfilter04.heinlein-hosting.de (spamfilter04.heinlein-hosting.de [80.241.56.122]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id 6YkwBmnjOez6; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 12:36:08 +0200 (CEST) Mail-Followup-To: Thibaut Verron , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Score: -2.33 / 15.00 / 15.00 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 23C8317DA X-Rspamd-UID: 1aa58d Received-SPF: pass client-ip=80.241.56.151; envelope-from=mail@vasilij.de; helo=mout-p-101.mailbox.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/29 06:36:14 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256683 Archived-At: --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I don't understand. Don't all interactive interpreters read input, > evaluate it, then print the result? Far from it. Lua before version 5.3 used to only read and evaluate (you had to add printing code for anything to be printed): $ lua5.2 Lua 5.2.4 Copyright (C) 1994-2015 Lua.org, PUC-Rio > 1 + 1 stdin:1: unexpected symbol near '1' > print(1 + 1) 2 >=20 $ lua5.3=20 Lua 5.3.5 Copyright (C) 1994-2018 Lua.org, PUC-Rio > 1 + 1 2 > print(1 + 1) 2 >=20 A more serious problem is the conflation of reading and evaluation, Lisp is unique in giving you easy access to the parse tree and representing it using the same plain old data structures as all other Lisp code. Even when it comes to the print part there are still languages limiting how an arbitrary data structure is printed, if it's possible at all. Some place limitations on whitespace control (for example mandatory newlines), others do not allow you to print the object in a form that can be read in again (for example by failing to print with escape characters). --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCAAdFiEE0dAcySl3bqM8O17WFmfJg6zCifoFAl9zDg4ACgkQFmfJg6zC ifoO1wf/bST+o2bFtdUUCTLBxOe1hDCakamwxP8eZx+G2TdSbAgQQ4cVlLBo++fG nSxWSQKWvMZvl4+RhFY5AFEJApeqZ2wroxcuLbyhckjsbht3HgAHt7fps5oeiqoK kukjkCmwkU1P+ogXxoHxdNs0S7cEx9Q+q3GRj7q087/aBHcod1/wlHhgPlnI1OF2 s8PGWBOjf2xCDdMNW+jiTMESAhNpFwptCFpbyr8zx5g4Pl6Vp1gzCF/6i2Rx8bMf uhD0+lF+mPBDvUTJr26M7eA4CojwQhMLe+NcHIPmroFbO4TjJ9wRawWFP92gT3EA qvbySwSkZgp47vGQomoDkL5QTTkhIg== =4kk3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw--