From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 20:07:40 +0300 Message-ID: <20200921170740.GA3551@protected.rcdrun.com> References: <4be18b5f-dc07-2703-a2de-1ed08916ebdf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24879"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.14.0 (2020-05-02) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nicola Manca Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 21 19:08:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kKPIq-0006MK-Il for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 19:08:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35472 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKPIp-000635-L6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 13:08:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38184) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKPI4-0005F1-Tx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 13:07:49 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:42861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKPI3-0004V6-4h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 13:07:48 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.18]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000005613D.000000005F68DDDF.00006178; Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:07:43 -0700 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4be18b5f-dc07-2703-a2de-1ed08916ebdf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/21 13:07:44 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -3 X-Spam_score: -0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256296 Archived-At: * Nicola Manca [2020-09-17 04:50]: > Dear all, > > following the recent discussions about a startup wizard and modern-mode I > try to provide a suggestion. > > What about having a startup screen, opening only if no .emacs or other user > configuration file is found just saying (the text is just an example): > > Welcome! > This is the first time you run Emacs, please choose how to proceed: > > [] Go Vanilla! > (standard defaults, no customizations) > > [] Start Configuration Wizard > (set-up your .emacs configuration file interactively) > > [] Try Emacs in enhanced-mode > (run with a predefined configuration showing emacs potential) > > After this screen, the normal Emacs splash screen could me > presented. No please. I would not like that be included in Emacs. I am installing so many times Emacs, I need no installation wizards, finally if it is proposal for "new users" then nothing will help but reading tutorials, as words such as "startup screen" would mean nothing special to such user. User reads description of a package, and finds out it is text editor, so expects to edit text, and not to think of defaults. How would new user know what are "standard defaults"?! I do not find it friendlier. Why a new user need to think of "customizations"?! I cannot see it is friendlier. Emacs as such now is very friendly software. Why would "Configuration Wizard" be friendlier? I don't find it friendlier, especially considering that more citizens in many countries find words like "wizard" not appealing, due to their beliefs. Sorry I cannot see how interactive setup would make it friendlier, as that brings users to learn to walk through the interactive setup, action alone is making it harder, not friendlier. Person is faced with difficulties, yet installed a text editor. What would mean "enhanced mode" under supposedly friendlier approach, I do not know. I would think that each person likes enhanced modes, be it for this or that, and I do not know why it should run with predefined configuration and cannot see how is it friendlier. I find it very friendly on *GNU Emacs* buffer: Welcome to GNU Emacs, one component of the GNU/Linux operating system. Emacs Tutorial Learn basic keystroke commands Emacs Guided Tour Overview of Emacs features at gnu.org View Emacs Manual View the Emacs manual using Info Absence of Warranty GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY Copying Conditions Conditions for redistributing and changing Emacs Ordering Manuals Purchasing printed copies of manuals Most friendly feature is that Emacs Tutorial is offered as first. Nothing else matters. To make Emacs friendlier, one could make more translations of the tutorial and include maybe additional Tutorials, I do believe that people like to learn. Tutorial works well, I have given Emacs to staff members who after short time could already start translating from English to local languages. And I am accessing Emacs so many times without .emacs, so I do not know why should I be faced with blocks in the workflow. -- Thanks, Jean Louis