From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Context menus and mouse-3 [was: Changes for emacs 28] Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:10:09 +0200 Message-ID: <20200917201009.zkbphv2veyhdany4@Ergus> References: <87k0wwsrj4.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <87h7ryet7n.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <51a61ac0-3be5-4993-a981-fa2272b173d3@default> <20200916081055.va7ln6aszrqit7yy@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27488"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, juri@linkov.net, ghe@sdf.org, arthur.miller@live.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, self@gkayaalp.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 17 22:11:48 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ0Fv-00071g-OP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:11:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46500 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ0Fu-0001lD-Nw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:11:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34114) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ0Eh-0000WZ-Iz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:10:32 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic305-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.133.42]:38701) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kJ0Eb-0007fb-3g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:10:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1600373421; bh=R9Z2gKgsydauVSaTtyvVgCIc/MLStUu0YnfcmdQJXmo=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=VErxJvaSrptsHm6IG2Qgbpd7qi78kIVHRF6cyIr1cj7i0Gs5/djaVUeLB+otdOa9JiaYiyeUAidfFdFMWu8xIU34a58j7J+V3+jlqW2veyAdPGz9sIVyjDEWQJ+ZaCn5N/lfdQaL3ZQhyw6wcxWxN+O5UggMg1ZtYsl8vrrLFKPOe1BDfykZvHWpqZF+HPd/TLu5arDE/ZSOCiKAPNxQZqD5DbdbAqJmoktAcUiIMs9YKfxFTuiZNYgQ2RD67ijAvhf0tErrF9zcUS44HHF3VTnb8qiiqsIZsm0K7irDrCKhdny7KTD8rEn7tPCixTd0YtCqIr+a6KGWvnxpHWNB2g== X-YMail-OSG: goJURUgVM1lig3cnubEo98KvrG3egXD.sVbUp_VgU8wcR6See6AM4VNSmbdK7AP uqb6F1Mta6n3bARlf84xB.rL7LO3pCr1QLX2K3EYU1JZJj5pazh_eTRaCOIrxBzD6RkBKPAKQHjo hjeP2U_XwPSlB0Gfywv1Yf5u9ZkK8bvOWf6w3.AFLho94iUU.BeV_Fobho.BRkfj1P_ct8r4dONU s3LlVeFX48IAteatNJ4XxPnn8dT1ch0.K.d58qlfM0lUKQQUWNJfp4TveCTcgDxHKvduV7YQBzuo SYn9NylDKFnRppmXM.9pYnWuSweADPYZVKD8rOeiBp9aCfGPtg5AElnzYJ57J8aIsOZkRcmVj29N rUz0yqql5PuAHGXLZ34cSsH5n8Hsvtal6KRTjllHxq0ersUeiTr2nrz6SIJu4PMNFtnNahO7kS5q vBMWvT9fPTxAXkgDon1MhH7xawiOZ5TMctbSGcOHBHn0am.RXdwZaBVwl4XkahCEtg7OgcngOls0 p.YQNWbwF5QCNrYpe4VDXrqSDwR8oHgBlYHKykbXX60QJOJozPLNik_RQbzU8wgSDShV_z7NI23u jKj3dFEfTX4E_t6hTUMGIg33l0.z4rD.ffAD1OFI_.5.5qNn3AI9snxURjAL.Iqu5XzFlyJfPlsj _BT_ZGmdXcybqqdGny_RQbjX4B4ATA8TQVMkjAjd57.MmI2F6UFZwOFh5kYWHToDO8xV5kB.Vu77 2KxzxB19k_9k_HzgbFijKzUvEhtbHceTjYJo6twHI.w0_c2E0s_R7UxmkCEyDpXhUMPsvC13JTAp PMRDslpW8YfeGc8j4oxFT9QaALkeIKQE2npOZNPKgS Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:10:21 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c158bd3f38e32d797fe252c5ac1342b8; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:10:19 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.133.42; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic305-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/17 16:10:21 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256034 Archived-At: On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:57:37PM -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: >[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > This was just an examples of discussions that have been for years in > > this mailing list and changes that the legacy users have opposed and > > vetoed > >Please do not call us "legacy users". That is a harsh thing to say of >anyone. It implies that Emacs inherited us and is stuck with us. > Sorry. That was the expression I found to describe users used to emacs as is (including me) but that oppose to many changes (so not like me). I usually describe features and changes I see in other editors that indeed are not beneficial for me at all because I already spent a lot of time learning the "emacs way". So in that sense I am also a legacy user. Most of the changes I propose are indeed very simple; just details and bindings that for external users are important and need constantly and are included in emacs since many years. But after all I understood that it is very hard to convince anyone (students, colleges, projects managers) to invest so much time and reading to learn how to do something simple they already know how to do everywhere else. We can't even sale the idea that it is faster, available everywhere, or more ergonomic like vim does. Changing some of these will probably force me to re-learn many things; but I am fine with that if that implies that the editor becomes more attractive for more users. Otherwise we are just dying slowly with every time less and less people in a world with exponentially more and more programmers (with need to use an editor; the knowledge to become maintainers and fresh ideas). >-- >Dr Richard Stallman >Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) >Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) >Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > >