From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Third Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 00:32:07 +0100 Message-ID: <20200915233207.GJ93185@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <875z8k4wv8.fsf@posteo.net> <83pn6shjni.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911074445.GB5194@tuxteam.de> <87zh5uqdqm.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20200913103046.GC14385@tuxteam.de> <20200915081228.GA7940@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22909"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 16 01:33:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kIKRo-0005s7-LA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:33:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57282 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIKRn-0005G3-Go for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:33:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIKQu-0004pg-38 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:32:20 -0400 Original-Received: from wilbur.contactoffice.com ([212.3.242.68]:49140) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIKQr-0000aF-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:32:19 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth1.co-bxl (smtpauth1.co-bxl [10.2.0.15]) by wilbur.contactoffice.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4D3BBB; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:32:13 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1600212733; s=20200222-6h9o; d=idiocy.org; i=alan@idiocy.org; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type:In-Reply-To; l=632; bh=EvS/GsXTF6eLSqblfNdc2oAxDUzIt2a/jkVn1C866vU=; b=pXBtsKE+0SlmAPlYpBK0SNcdGRaWbeuMDNW7cfKl4uLbzlBjvzDLsj6EjfvRw/F8 OymZVAS8U7XzvnCdw32+mPhS3T6Q/ET0h6OsiXf6eSmCdMZWDWLYN0EmPGMrXqDxn80 O4/Csh6CFnOeB6hQLnFivXAnA0BCnlYdpRDE91tBkNq4UpzYNU/0qMPtfTnUMr8E9Ti lKpG10ktJ3ory7XklgHn1GI3sbQW+WQixOlknv3kQWv5cXH67wJEF7wHVluoNyDgbvh b+tFvUO3x8ADzvOiuzpFZrpT807LnEmLkNNTMKHqZ9K3DoIr4VP+KAwx4bzMkKOEzwB tVZxr7A5hQ== Original-Received: by smtp.mailfence.com with ESMTPA ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:32:09 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by breton.holly.idiocy.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id B3CA020254C0B8; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 00:32:07 +0100 (BST) Mail-Followup-To: Alan Third , Gregory Heytings , tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ContactOffice-Account: com:241649512 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.3.242.68; envelope-from=alan@idiocy.org; helo=wilbur.contactoffice.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/15 19:32:13 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255804 Archived-At: On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 08:45:56PM +0000, Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. wrote: > This is not clear at all IMO. When users choose to use VS Code or Atom or > Emacs or ..., they choose between a number of free (as in beer) products. In > such cases I tend to think that marketing plays little if any role, and that > it's the quality of the product that matters. One thing I see come up time and again is how so many people believe that all Emacs users have crippled, arthritic hands because of the use of modifiers. I'm sure it genuinely puts people off Emacs. That is "marketing". -- Alan Third