On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 09:27:42PM +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote:

[...]

> >This is exactly the point I was putting in question: My
> >take is that popularity is part of a giant feedback loop,

[...]

> A feedback loop is of course there.
> 
> But since we're not in marketing department, and we're not outlining
> a promotional campaign, it's also irrelevant.

I think it's relevant, inasmuch as we should try to understand
where things come from, and especially how they impact user
freedom whenever we consider emulating them.

> We're not living in a vacuum, and we try to help real people. If a
> feature, or a UI design, or etc, has reached a significant level of
> popularity, adopting it in our program is likely to be beneficial.
> When someone comes in with just basic familiarity of other programs
> such as VS Code, and manages to become productive enough in Emacs
> faster because of that, it _is_ good.
> 
> It's far from the only consideration we should make,

Exactly.

>       but scoffing at "popular" misses the point.

I'm not for scoffing. But most definitely for a critical valuation
and for an understanding where things come from.

Some "features" coming from our "commercial competitors" may be
good ideas. Some are just attempts at differentiation, to gather
attention or market share. Copy the first, not necessarily the
second.

> >Failing to see this leads to this over-eager "how can we
> >change Emacs to make it more popular" [...]

> As long as we don't discount familiarity when talking about newcomer
> friendliness, I agree.

Alternatively, we can just offer bridges. Emacs is flexible
enough to play vi, after all :-)

Cheers
 - t