From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 11:46:00 +0200 Message-ID: <20200914094600.2tim5dkc5pd7xccd@Ergus> References: <20200911134225.zhnlq7cdhmu2iraj@Ergus> <20200911221435.go7b5kz2zcvxp2ft@Ergus> <83sgbnecka.fsf@gnu.org> <835z8jdycd.fsf@gnu.org> <871rj6t5ut.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <87lfhcsrub.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19749"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, eliz@gnu.org, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, tecosaur@gmail.com To: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 14 11:46:54 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHl4X-0004ye-LL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 11:46:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43198 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHl4W-00083D-OM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:46:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54112) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHl3v-0007Vv-Ox for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:46:16 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic309-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.129.123]:32966) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHl3r-0003xW-Hj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:46:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1600076769; bh=dmNTtox2tUCCpF+YgLV0I976jZlH7xFeUoD13BMcxSU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=iXTz7hcUxXU9iJYjXCOCcNL1BJIHYYnnSkoKMzZ6hNtPp2xOqkBqSG7HrJpfdJRAGzIV7fuqRDD+Ppv4S82Wu93JzT5VjKmLOH8HrBWs3W9EYPn4IsmymQ3/mE3MbZGt4Jyumekw0mE3WnKT46Yaoth6rFLf0UMJEo+WOowqBRJWznl46CJOM28Nl3dCACtZ//FUnyGKZnk0BC0FByW17XY1XIJFf3a4rZk2bzRJRHjRw4fbFC/e2VoAjbWkbDO1uG44gyGJSE5OqCG4hzJcRsgCbPHYKNzg+ZnADhCJ98MS0TzknXbD/aArM4KKhr4anNwV1cq92WhalOC+O1Fhkw== X-YMail-OSG: tymb3hoVM1kmmOgvSqf2NP3bx6KCkBf0eHHQRQPLCI4_VcV.z_AlQD3xJRZGLUB Qtb33YcKVnp9qdsasjUTAF_4KcdTado8Ys5CFcM9m8iO_XfXF.WfGJST46r2_5rlyqqwZyCO7wTK 7fVObZQd8Mxqfc8zyXv_c4RzzUCEYMhQHVYbuE_O3wEwm3W_S3whXuL4LsmdOB3yF9gCwSeIxWO. gFSKe44n_oB8cbftuYRLdF4xZNd1Npi3PGGhLn5EGcFr2.M0iaIRV.bzqa16COP2jdh7JWDdlb2H F9x5FIkKKZpJieJ_6.mI7yEdsSzrza5.f8nYKZIqHSi8OmkwqN5q9yQyYvDxonj47YvmVgwhqxYp Tf2tnnPLRobdLXgEdElRrU218wKH9R6S0hagk19IBH1ozhvn1BIkUu9scffmWANn4wqR8M6y5Ah3 UFzv0gBFr9cYe41n.amctwrdVVLawrTz81iMaxOoQrV5MD0QGh9T2XydZONy.uY54Mcs5WEMjq6e d3OC8RoOfSEoNRZ7AW5QIP3hjtESnUvcIn2phEfHxQy9xKGIbwEFC6xOMJcILudncgLgvM369DdP CoLO4MAFNTKoceyG0lxDlHj69G9Lll4f284FZSUu.OQNYDlUrwSK_fXCtd7_XlJCiQwzhUu056IC l6ho2dJ8dXEd2Ze48GunCPMyt0SZJxm0b1.5iuy4U9Ch_s7PzzA0GDtyKhsCc9Pr2lEmiBdgWm6O qpybVacDP_IV_Y3._ARGnIz9F1rWQ0THBCsi1vv0aprVr3ajpAqYjSLtqwbjkkQ4t9otQDK.SBgJ SxuVh5MdtpX5jUtxqF5uM_CCOCSnSAAq3IwSK0H9Ja Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:46:09 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp414.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 84d431b6925c15684608047ea4db6126; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:46:05 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87lfhcsrub.fsf@gkayaalp.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.129.123; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic309-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/14 05:46:09 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255625 Archived-At: On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 11:08:44AM +0300, Göktuğ Kayaalp wrote: >On 2020-09-14 06:50 +03, Richard Stallman wrote: >> > IMHO this is not really necessary. A simpler approach would be to >> > simply have a mode which has the plain right click (mouse-3) show a >> > simple menu >> >> Do you mean, this menu is the same regardless of modes, buttons, etc? >> >> The C-Mouse-3 menus offer commands useful for the text you are using. >> Why not include that too? > >I’d expect that this ‘right click menu’ to have a large skeleton that’s >the same everywhere, but possibly with some salient context relevant >items. Because that’s what I’ve observed in most operating systems and >GUI applications. The only place I’ve seen something like Emacs’ >C-mouse bindings is NextStep and GnuStep. > >Another thing is mouse bindings with modifiers are rather uncommon in >other software. Personally, the only place I used them was TVM menus. > >The current binding of C-mouse-3 is basically the global menu and it’s >way to crowded to be useful as a quick access right click menu. Ideally >the majority of actions in such a menu would be accessible without >opening submenus. Otherwise I don’t think providing the global menu at >three different places is of any use. > IMO it is better to improve that same C-mouse-3 and promote it to mouse-3. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-09/msg01141.html >A positive side effect would be that this mostly one-level menu would >list some common keybindings like for kill, save kill, yank, M-x, etc., >so it’d have some didactic value as well. > Totally agree >An interesting way to set things up could be to somehow have a hook >which major modes could use to add a submenu to this right click context >menu, in whatever fashion they see fit. > We do something similar in the menu-bar right? I mean, dynamically add entries to the menu bar. The only thing I concern about this is that many modes could try to add many entries and we end with a bad very long problematic panel. I face that problem frequently in lxde. >IMHO if we fix the menu I wrote and add the functionality I just >mentioned, we’d have something to play with and modify up until we >eventually arrive at the 28 release cycle, and at that point we’d have >developed an implementation that pleases everyone. > >In fact we could just throw a bunch of stuff this whole discussion talks >about behind a configure flag like --with/without-breaking-ui-changes, >and folks like me who use up-to-date builds of Emacs master could >periodically try these out and report breakage, workarounds, usage >patterns, etcetera. So we’d have an iterative, interactive approach, >rather than trying to ossify everything right at the start. Actually, >given the size of this discussion, having a separate >‘emacs-modernization’ mailing list could be a good idea too. Because >this discussion will likely have the spotlight for some certain and long >amount of time up until when 28 becomes ready for release candidates. > >If it sounds interesting / plausible, I can post this last paragraph, >with a bit more detail, as it’s own toplevel thread. > >-- >İ. Göktuğ Kayaalp / @cadadr / >pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427