From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 13:38:30 +0200 Message-ID: <20200913113830.GD14385@tuxteam.de> References: <83lfhhijbl.fsf@gnu.org> <871rj9uz12.fsf@gkayaalp.com> <875z8k4wv8.fsf@posteo.net> <83pn6shjni.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911074445.GB5194@tuxteam.de> <87zh5uqdqm.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <20200913103046.GC14385@tuxteam.de> <87y2lerlhl.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TybLhxa8M7aNoW+V" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12186"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 14:08:27 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHQnz-0001ui-76 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:08:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58380 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHQND-0000wi-Sb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:40:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40696) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHQLA-0008Fl-JX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:38:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:38593) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHQL8-0003NE-Bi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:38:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=Ggqk+itpuLcg6GeD0FvVHYY2KdPou4vqyspWPUO4j2M=; b=R1p4xn/gTjgfWsjsnyDZNo6ClPI4m0e+xZQwsWink4/18O5+5SewObIjrP+8yZJJ7JcYG4UfILogy8uYwQbnTXLg+ev4IwACDWYguqs3QWAOIqqxI73INbcxLzRAlojIUaLxaBK9+6j2r1JvmW0AhnSj0WgEoVCswZIDNAbIs5icMvQXE87HMq8UiFhMyFAnerlguABdj0U2dZ4cOAtyR89V/BxmIUAwtHZ3TcKu6FWXVW7QheNgLjJJ/gmXVcMCe4oLxUQfK5JOaUV+H18OjS1IrEakHGL2yTGNV/g1uAAplYDEY8IonhCzyeTc6uIZ2mJuCiShf9WkH/e6pB/+vg==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1kHQL0-0006z9-Db for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 13:38:30 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87y2lerlhl.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/13 06:30:52 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255464 Archived-At: --TybLhxa8M7aNoW+V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 01:59:02PM +0300, G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp wrote: [...] > A lot of that research is pseudo scientific. E.g. some famous > =E2=80=98principles=E2=80=99 of UX design are based on academesified opit= ion or > misappropriation of unrelated research. E.g. see this one [1]. If you > read the =E2=80=98scientific=E2=80=99 background to the =E2=80=98laws=E2= =80=99, what you=E2=80=99ll see is that > some of those are shaky, and some of those are lesser than that. Thanks for the link, and thanks for your appreciation. Yes, I see it similarly; this research may be, at the bottom, genuine, but it is strongly modulated by marketing departments (at several points: for one, of course, the software vendor's, but also the UX research company's). > We should focus on what makes users *stay* with Emacs [...] This is an important point, I think. > We=E2=80=99re asking "why people aren=E2=80=99t coming to Emacs in hordes= " too much, > when "why are people using Emacs in the first place" is the more > important one. Yes. It's always a balancing act, where the equilibrium point shifts over time. Diverging too far from what is "customary" isn't user friendly (most of us use other software besides Emacs, and it raises the barrier to entry), following the "customary" too closely creates a lot of churn along the random walk, at the cost of Emacs users. Cheers - t --TybLhxa8M7aNoW+V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAl9eBLYACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZpAQCfQ/TLRoa2eBX8bSloquBlcyDU jiAAni5dGXdasDsI/cTV23Q1A/bzEFsv =/THx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TybLhxa8M7aNoW+V--