From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 04:35:22 +0200 Message-ID: <20200913023522.a3iie375xvpv23nx@Ergus> References: <83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org> <838sdfdzxo.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912121603.bsp53vgfwj3y62in@Ergus> <831rj7dvhg.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912131802.fiowctrzc2yx4ozu@Ergus> <83y2lfcdq2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3148"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 04:36:28 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHHsS-0000l3-7o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 04:36:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36372 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHHsR-0004XQ-9L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 22:36:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47614) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHHrc-0003zr-D3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 22:35:36 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic315-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.134.124]:34327) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHHrY-0003KH-Hc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 22:35:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1599964529; bh=HMJJPBE+RWWNdNRe+Rh7npruN63jX9vSvo05leUzPhc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=KfBpRedxKDgZOES/ZJ/zXa3fgCcRAjG08AR7z1mA6jA2fCO6al8GpmGhw5K6fyC9w0AiS5+Iz08MIeTHlkfXAOL5O5iV7V25UQcbW/jqL9xDzSxEZtOsXH99vndnlh532DbQ3a83/ai95S9kjABXpQ6TnPCOWmwgvApQvlZcq4Jdc6/r3ChiS5GgC6IIePEGx2BCVOYYrfhcazjGD3bsNQWc91wD2yyTXyQlJVWxiUWehLRwQw2yvW4oT6qnTLtgoEG2mwWgB4UKiXMaERtxzt7KX/k7HZL9srqWGyWmBoysfBeaSUfRry83uAgippcvS7l6KKTV1/M2pzzGZp3lDQ== X-YMail-OSG: BmRvl4kVM1nrwOAaLHLdoc0Cv9s1IC3Dr5nXv9d6V84Xji4RNRyBx6JButjc_cl 1Xs3Qeg6JEmFeLEIxv8CQLyLhnkiyG8Wj52Zcv5eLCCBajpFFzZ8jkMaQxDU_2fWlvFCmXgcR3gs wHqwWZrbbJ50F_UQnN4UgL1tpG2A7SuvR5a5X8vTtDpNfRg8JiInbWw5cR5wwJz3Y3qZsHo.rzvr vc.5wLz_W9taVtSW4y7fq8TNh6B8RdwtFqlumnzpQgMp7c0adtbfcgMajovSVtQDKBdXh6vnY36B 2HZm.yn1p4zvez.edGErWCahecWTZjPtywlyesV9JbIOd6KjBrAs0lJ6RbiSG15W0Hag5s.tVTgc 4Z5NuHrPAeKwA0PotJHtukvOvl56Izz54FQaD9gtqZaKU.rqcu4B3T0LDoAyUq88ZUkKtZd9X7va GN90BnaAyEBVF.FYaapaaDfC8keedaUsqOhiDr_XNIS9hkohTOYpptC2eiNdCpJ.Ec1SFGTI5Srh p4mawwbNCq2Whd0i6ia1y6P36FboCBsOkWzkkgV9iJ2AYggkzcABMvwsQuIyvb9aizs0vQgPIx4L kQpZh10sopsMWl_SnTXqZ9YgR0W18_wxSdsmKd82dYjueqCkeXy_IHUdPLxA9WW4c4Gy.hUvluwl SQS477f1cdFYR8KEg0ceVNAkOAScp8L7hCbtt5PomB66zy3EJRubCUwPWLCN4Agw68fvL_OvN1wl FZ3GsaCiMf9AKQ8ZWibF_CYyquxficCbPoKDBXBAZf6sNxJwQrNPe_.Z91NX9x8l750czpNkuvgN Ikc68PTBUjnNSOIECPmschp7G4LaDkn.dWWhHpbNNG Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 02:35:29 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp415.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b2d7b640887e9e1b7155b3fc8a1414fd; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 02:35:28 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.134.124; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic315-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 22:35:29 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255423 Archived-At: On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 03:01:42AM +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote: >On 12.09.2020 16:43, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >To my knowledge, if we want to come close to what those other editors >show, our current best bet is icomplete-vertical (or something similar >to it) I think that "something similar" is ivy+counsel. It works pretty fine, lighter than helm and it is in elpa. The api engine is very polished and the experience in general is better than with icomplete because it also has integrated all the completion engines, sorting and formats in a modular way. >PLUS a packages that moves the minibuffer to either the center >or the top of the frame (or makes it seem live the minibuffer has been >moved, of course). > ivy-posframe also offers this with the ivy engine. I already wrote to the author to move it to elpa and he is asking the contributors if they have all the gnu documentation. (He already has as he is the author of posframe and company-posframe) The only drawback is that posframes does not work in a terminal interface as company do... (I totally ignore that's the difference between a posframe and a normal window) Any way I think it is always better to have more than one option before deciding which one we will "officially" support. >Here's a showcase if one such package in action: > >https://raw.githubusercontent.com/honmaple/emacs-maple-minibuffer/master/screenshot/example.gif > >In particular, see the examples where the dropdown is displayed at the >top and in the middle of the frame. > >The package itself is here: >https://github.com/honmaple/emacs-maple-minibuffer > >There are already several packages that try to do something like this, >but this one seemed the most stable last time I tried. > >Even so, it has unfortunate limitations like not being able to adjust >the height according to the number of available completions. And >different features that use minibuffer are likely to expose other >sharp corners of this (very impressive) hack. Like, some previous >version of icomplete-vertial failed to work with it. The current seems >to work fine, though. > I have been trying ivy-posframe and it seems that the posframe library solves this for them. >So some low-level work/redesign of minibuffer code might be needed for >this to be ready for wide public. > >Relatedly, there exists a similar effort by out very own Martin >Rudalics, but the discussion about polishing it has died down around >here: >https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-06/msg00171.html > >Previously: >https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-05/msg03167.html