From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:55:21 +0200 Message-ID: <20200912145521.tf725mbclqpxhkp7@Ergus> References: <83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org> <838sdfdzxo.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912121603.bsp53vgfwj3y62in@Ergus> <831rj7dvhg.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912131802.fiowctrzc2yx4ozu@Ergus> <83y2lfcdq2.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912141758.47dqojov5ivabwyz@Ergus> <83r1r7cba9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2958"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 16:56:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6wk-0000fN-FL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:56:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55418 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6wj-0003VC-I9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:56:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40758) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6wD-00032c-Cl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:55:37 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic310-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.135.124]:41780) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6wB-0000gL-26 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:55:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1599922533; bh=dI70gqsEyLAPLZVklig1+Ehn8J60Sff9p22aRoKgK/Q=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=tOkU0N0fuJoe4xI42GU132sOgZORFg8hC4R0d+ynmCaAEbga1TrB6T5nwk65rSOjvzh0tDVDHQpGGCWmLFZS2N5xwSetsLMDLK19tmLAom7DtLS/K8DKxV5k9DMPEi/ZwH9N/deR/zV1lAQ52ceZc/DZUfshVceMhQUET8wM6ktYtdxFReyrAHuLorm5AWdW6AXIERac/CBaYUFrSK4hLM3yMqROIKz7J2fxsvikwqlMOIL76uBTsx+/stcbg6J4poFAshYCsasdRYo3ZiiZJA4xMK0UFEHzrAAZsYyQ7MfLxTnWxR3MHTPdLVq1UvZWCyVURpvfJnPv+ziiMcrYDg== X-YMail-OSG: elUJb0MVM1kiIUYh9Cmgv7LYPNCV3gkI1gEQ4jvWGVgGYJfDjxuHKOQjGJqGhAz hWQEF_MRGn.4.T4c.LpRukEHZbqCE79vVYUPIu9Zp9TLsmRwECsgnqijbn4pYD5pES_HTESOLh4D aDZYlYKlHIYSxbDYx1KAUbMGhc2JIsXcx7zoePTfjL.ozN9HmwuCu8hr4EWnEnukk9Kh6C.r0wpo draWPr6QYqAX3EWs0FuDj1x7CIhXeB0ioz8G.aapu4cFEADezcObuPlc2CsK4hjsnAkXaUsoTEyM OCM09OqGJUUaH5yYyy.z48y4FJa.l68F.OIYO0IEn5HP_uoEpvJdnNtj9sJz9JoXLQFcMd.HBPMN KHHCGtvWR8NOOIllv8ZzfkeMXWCiV48PaW2_LsLC33_nUZMKgkLzENcwtlo8WUwddrOCx1I.lr8P VQFx13vSGWCttMdfYI4jx93_naup5elwjN5BcX_TyJZBMBsGVTvZsqZdVlyagDyAWYh6L8NrgWW1 IlsY_E1mvg07CJsJZab_ga.yFcdLGpsTiAJvz72HG5poj7TxXTFF2n1CPkwUfCZduK8NdUZaEH3o .E6JOb1Rv7UMUwbHmy7nuC9_gcXdwyz_TvjeQuOt7HkP0KCuoN1Ds7au3GvKdoLcHJm6ALXjMLzq zDrFufKmZwGK.1dslkPhmAjfQIBek8aeEQVZpvOi6O9h2xC0i6Ya3IxdpX3NjkKYw87hCy4gUHZe 1jbh1aKJcyI8XA.H4ACHg973jXqjov2F5DkaQUftGL55SQxYYeTvxwJUuNfm1pF3Q0iTuLE_Hma8 x44SBMY8H49StI8TPi8bD4fEBZyT5ZadFuVRZRczsK Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:55:33 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp416.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d9cc0f452ed033ad0c3668b3c2997bda; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:55:27 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83r1r7cba9.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.135.124; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic310-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 10:55:33 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255365 Archived-At: On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 05:36:14PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:17:58 +0200 >> From: Ergus >> Cc: ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> >We are miscommunicating. I said "similar to Company", meaning that >> >the completion drops down a vertical list of candidates that overlays >> >the rest of the display. AFAIK, no existing completion package offers >> >something similar. >> >> Sorry to bother with this. But I don't see how what you describe defers >> from Company. I mean, what is missing in company or what is different >> from your desired behavior? > >Didn't yourself say that Company is not for completion in the >minibuffer? Whereas we are discussing minibuffer completion? > >> I agree that company needs some work, maybe check the bindings and the >> default colors. > >If Company can be used for minibuffer completion, then there's no >problem. > >> icomplete is the best we have embedded. > >Maybe our best is not good enough in this case? In which case, if we >want to offer newcomers an experience that they expect, we need to >implement something which we don't yet have. > Ahh now I get your point. You were referring for the minibuffer only completion. Maybe now I am the conservative, but a menu in the middle of the screen is not better than one at the bottom. And developing something as polished as helm or ivy from scratch maybe don't worth the effort and we don;t have the manpower for that. Also many of our commands are actions on the current text (emacs is much more command-centric) overlapping a menu maybe is not a good idea. Sublime has such a menu, but it is for installing applications and some other "external" actions unrelated with direct editing. The rest of the applications just have a right click. Any way if you think that this is a good direction there is already: ivy-postframe: https://github.com/tumashu/ivy-posframe