From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:18:02 +0200 Message-ID: <20200912131802.fiowctrzc2yx4ozu@Ergus> References: <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org> <838sdfdzxo.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912121603.bsp53vgfwj3y62in@Ergus> <831rj7dvhg.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33332"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 15:18:46 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5QU-0008be-08 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:18:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33400 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5QT-00040W-2V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:18:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5Py-0003bQ-T9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:18:14 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic307-1.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.134.40]:41922) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5Pw-0004w2-Be for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:18:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1599916690; bh=hworF/G7L+aPdgSvC+zhdg6YDw2sNOOphiOiivTnI8Q=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=A5B2yk9GQnLnZ9w2QhG6gQ3kuIyIr3Oer+JCW3pF3Psu35ZSSxT8zxPZQd47SQii5GvbEjcAfWlt+REyZXPBUFlImebMFqs4yCANQfCdRZd0LWIItC8NhhlnHSWH8W/L/mbUpfFoRrgjpPN2yXfiVWzzvDKlF9Xm63xcKVoOWsvLOGVBsCKg7TJc+t5py7dGMBDYKlKOVwnJQV1PZHLtp90iyzw/TLiiX4gLylYBwboX6zu7wX7PGdkY0UlqgZ+sUt2qLEXhjatoXVlfi4q0owLnBdMT3o9Kw8GkUQG/hg0aIdMxIeMIZuTBs9Lc39J7Y+tejeXBZ07fwCb01rYbtw== X-YMail-OSG: n6fJOJcVM1lo8qI61yD_zVDnN4VNkm8_4VqXTF8ERG_.a3.s7thgMA8wXB_Gtr_ _SykEwzn2W9OYOy5Aj32zkj7mUC3eZXNjYoIRJCtcpxv8eX_PjK0lvtBFF5In4tl3P0ZYEtL56aB qo7EpRVtGK4yYeD3rp4KB0WN9v3zourGyRpFs3uLrd3Rbq_FqfL9RBHUnf7uotQGxp4SlCGR.h6p OtCJty_WWqxf4N2Bxuu90WD0MWNDZE8avtjkBhdCJLxB06PKmkt4dgy4J46E4Q22cPg3okPXozyK lGiDU14RXWy_fsXE4ToT34uc.m3ExtHOtC5jTetcpzbyl86Py8XKAHxgcUktVef11nwlW05ah1v. jzNKn9Y5xaJYhme_oRvNGtcJgzbaKwRfaU1xYiuTBxoJGgd_WhBO7tzR8Xy39Ke5Cqb.UC4sT0Yr t_WHMAr6vSAhhVvZDpqNCXvaDhr2CEQDAUivQjzqguMNvmZivH4doBmTBIGAt.7YMnjAvxhFdetz XjqdVS8RAvzKGswn6p7cplez7eNGJB7syQhxkRf1DIsoNVFrldypiyLLoBXXHRgLNNH1i0JKHGhx T8o256h7efFJcq4Qtu2SFC3lTooc9Gfq8.HFHdVG.CW9WVumH1Y_xRozxdYv1kBMvLcrfx89kktZ kBha3YCsVD6pZJInE03Ym.e6rm5DjLafuJ4K5fC9S_ZFlWxijxN9rF4uAaKb8Mm8ZAUL_KDCG_Tp lU7W1xUjVyDtV269Ed7Q6edu1fG.lnn0kkMTkK0vICnKwYRQkDIbF4TsZunkhMwo.87OcOaEG8lt TjDjtk9w8lEAtiOVRiF5qTIhLqqFF4w.0MdFTexad9 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 13:18:10 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp424.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 537ab5e7ebbff3226e36835e406fddfe; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 13:18:07 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <831rj7dvhg.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.134.40; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic307-1.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 08:19:34 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 2 X-Spam_score: 0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255342 Archived-At: On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 03:34:35PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:16:03 +0200 >> From: Ergus >> Cc: Gregory Heytings , casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> >My point is that we should not put there unimportant options, let >> >alone those which we recommend not to change from the defaults. >> > >> We could add and extra optional SCREEN with advanced options. The user >> can click next if done with the options in this page or advanced and go >> for a more detailed and longer list of options. > >Once we come up with the list of options we consider important and >useful for this target audience, we can then discuss whether the list >is long enough to warrant splitting. > Agree >> >Then perhaps we need to develop a new completion mechanism. Which >> >IDEs show completion like icomplete-mode? >> > >> Sublime and atom have a menu pretty similar to ours. A bit more >> graphical oriented, but in the same "spirit". > >"Spirit" is not what's important here, IMO. What's important is the >visual appearance and the available actions and their effects. What I >see out there is similar to Company, and quite different from >icomplete-mode, even when augmented by the vertical sub-mode. We have xref-find-apropos and completion-at-point. But icomplete use is totally different to company. icomplete is more a minibuffer completion engine useful while tipping commands, of lookign for files. There a company panel is uncomfortable. While company-mode is a "suggestion menu" while editing. Maybe our error have been to consider both as a single "feature". Dimitry is the "company boss" ;) if you want it by default I don't think anyone will have complains about as company is in general very popular. Most external popular completions engines like LSP support company throw company-capf or completion-at-point. What's do you think is better to invest time improving the completion-at-point or port Company to vanilla?