From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel
Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 04:01:42 +0200
Message-ID: <20200912020142.llwb3l6gugnnygh2@Ergus>
References: <83imckh9yt.fsf@gnu.org>
 <f5d602b1-4eec-c301-5ff7-4329d602fb67@yandex.ru>
 <83ft7oh63h.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911121919.5oljwsot4g3bm7zq@Ergus>
 <83a6xwh4o3.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911125744.x7at74mr4dyrcktf@Ergus>
 <83zh5wfor3.fsf@gnu.org>
 <92d20285-2141-2ef3-da09-432aeb3ecec4@yandex.ru>
 <20200911211709.v2o6mbbhb6oz4o3b@Ergus>
 <4d7167ad-26c1-49a6-5613-3f44d48decff@yandex.ru>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214";
	logging-data="6523"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io"
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org,
 drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 04:02:29 2020
Return-path: <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>
Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org
Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17])
	by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
	(Exim 4.92)
	(envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>)
	id 1kGus1-0001ar-KE
	for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 04:02:29 +0200
Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43052 helo=lists1p.gnu.org)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
	(envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>)
	id 1kGus0-0003xz-KQ
	for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 22:02:28 -0400
Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49898)
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <spacibba@aol.com>) id 1kGurW-0003Xk-UG
 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 22:01:58 -0400
Original-Received: from sonic310-15.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.135.125]:42449)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <spacibba@aol.com>) id 1kGurU-0005Fy-8l
 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 22:01:58 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048;
 t=1599876113; bh=leYPn4NXZ7y5gc7fhdXh1pDBPeJ+lpukjle1y2luMBI=;
 h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject;
 b=mRMeqSQXpBLcv1yMZOb8N6W/TDCrNwXLMLHrrntLLYUKhlh0eXHGCpjPzEbgr0M1lDiFqNTryby6xIvywUxJ6I40qCikqnJW38gDK0FdLHqf5Jw8dpdyEpDN/dsZP/iMc76d2XJh5vhseuyEvF/SQN6u0N6Hr2p0eQLHDZ/8xtrNfVO4vnH8frNV7H9Zcy/9pffPtTkz24i+ddBWqdvTLVUgTXO7+hlEk1pabSyMDlti8n0Qy8+yInUINmGBPHxAZHbg6A9N5JB4Tr0ovIqjc/NoX/p5mb4+d8Q7nVgRyhrGRqWNY5IU7Kq3Pkyw3dIaNiRDj5n9Hs/nubeZBSnpWg==
X-YMail-OSG: bg3cArcVM1lr45SO5VhqHRoVy7TJSQRHg8FDkD30ymc24SpFhap81K2FGmDzYy2
 TUAOHDa6tjj2c4EQreLPTAaV.oLsjeIpfnvqYetDophNDvNd6URd3ZygSURLZlkHBLP2XP3Abnhz
 BbMfGGhwgPKDZ61TJXH80aF_92Te_4RrGmnTkLDxjSHp8HuuIFa_ly2gb4fWDOfdxxL8Yu815Yii
 Hxe2.oJM846Y1pfzec5rGGBs_9K8O6nu_SGSTdEVITTUWu3bcwN5dbA0Vu3MoeM_ILaEDmrhL8Vk
 EVow0yBBBQPgoo2a5vrzysTK1BGsuGt5kPIPmaxm6Hyvi8AR61FyYzFCKqU8xdSN.Pcasf5wnQgY
 DFDWDQmlhFYSqrPyijUoebhWep8dZMWV9NNKX3cL4WSY4rrLyQnwQjEuvmeROGq81e9pKGdm9Fnu
 4Gt15yoU3FnLSNbDqM.Pv6iLHwSfhsLVqw6uS4OKTK.WGswFiDVN.4LHoCykDUKPQ2H5aq8CSC9d
 _FEDmpaPEV5uAxNpQQkV0Jdo8TtUOFZ.R.5Pc8ZqfxozTfe.mMEosPvFsazutu0Mg58jAkqHrD2T
 hIhZO4biSzfAHkTwIhJK4zqgnTfTL52YJSqMJprS4iU1WcLElUBntCeD820ewKrGDYnz8SVeMdu6
 CSA69roR_j0nTc09WrxSoA9ES89QRAwiCOYo1k3X4c2AgCGWy3awl9pIBzfgo3RMefe2m8y9nQ7b
 MKVWZrXpno4.8M6btGseNsuXh.Ep68MKWkKogh.CysNoRd1i6hRzIVMC74ybIvdBYppwKgcejLqf
 bIZKeAJ1sUdylfmb0gFwwfgYnvXhpJ1gH1g6UoDuPt 
Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by
 sonic310.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:01:53 +0000
Original-Received: by smtp402.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA
 ID 1a78bf7f668340aa77bfb17ab908a688; 
 Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:01:48 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <4d7167ad-26c1-49a6-5613-3f44d48decff@yandex.ru>
X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583
 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol
 Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7)
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.135.125; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com;
 helo=sonic310-15.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com
X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/11 22:01:53
X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS   = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy]
X-Spam_score_int: -20
X-Spam_score: -2.1
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1,
 DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,
 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/emacs-devel>,
 <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel>
List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>,
 <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org
Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel"
 <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>
Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255251
Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/255251>

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 01:29:42AM +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>On 12.09.2020 00:17, Ergus wrote:
>>On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 12:00:48AM +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>
>>>So there will be contradiction between the menu and the keyboard?
>>>
>>Hopefully not: With the undo-redo-mode; undo icon will do undo-only as
>>well as the keyboard and toolbar-icon.
>
>Indeed.
>
>>Otherwise; maybe it is easier to keep everything there as now (undo and
>>redo in toolbar and menubar and no undo-redo-mode) but add an option
>>like default-undo-command to set the undo-only as the default undo
>>either in the keyboard, toolbar and menubar if someone (like me) don't
>>like at all the default undo.
>>
>>I don't know if that's possible with a simple remap... is it?
>
>It's unlikely to be as seamless as toggling undo-redo-mode.
>

>>BTW: everybody agrees in set undo-redo to C-? and M-_??
>
>No objections so far, and the bindings are free, so...
>
>We can change the exact keys later anyway.
>
>>Personally I still think that a mode is better. But I trust more in Eli's
>>opinion than mine in this topics.
>
>Since Eli clarified that his objection is not hard (email from 
>11.09.2020, 16:13), perhaps you should go ahead and propose a concrete 
>patch for review.

Actually the implementation is barely trivial; something like this
should work (including tool-bar and menu-bar) because the redo icon is
already there; so we only add the bindings for it until it will be added
by default:

(defvar undo-redo-mode-map
   (let ((map (make-sparse-keymap)))
     (define-key map [remap undo] 'undo-only)
     (define-key map (kbd "C-?") 'undo-redo)
     (define-key map (kbd "M-_") 'undo-redo)
     map))

(define-minor-mode undo-redo-mode
   "Replace undo with undo-only and enables undo-redo."
   :global t
   :keymap undo-redo-mode-map
   :group 'undo
   )

As it seems like the redo will stay by default as well as the bindings,
then the mode is probably not needed and the user could just bind:

(define-key global-map [remap undo] 'undo-only)

if he don't like to use the default undo.

If we remove the redo from the menu and toolbar and or the default
bindings; then some other small changes will be needed and will make
sense to have this mode. But so far nobody complained about the redo
icon and personally I don't really care too much.