From: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: ghe@sdf.org, "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>,
tecosaur@gmail.com, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 00:14:35 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200911221435.go7b5kz2zcvxp2ft@Ergus> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvlfhge6oq.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 10:23:19AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> If you change a single face it doesn't improve anything. The whole thing
>> is the important. The overall result after all the changes. A light
>> toolbar looks worst with a dark background as well; big icons looks
>> terrible with small fonts.
>
>I personally have no idea what "modern" looks like or what makes
>something look "modern", so I'd welcome a description. Showing me
>examples doesn't really help me. By description I don't mean "change
>this one face to foo", but rather the underlying ideas behind the
>various changes.
>
>
> Stefan
>
I will try my best but my terminology could be totally wrong (worst than
my English). (Note that I only use emacs from the terminal anyway)
1) The toolbar: Some applications don't use them anymore as they have a
full panel on right click and the hamburger icon like the browsers.
1.1) Using system icons generally has not so good effect either; because
gnome themes are not good in general by default (except ubuntu and some
others who changed them). Some applications bring their own icons just
to look better OOTB (not telling we should do the same)
OTOH Plasma (KDE) has better icons; but all the environment is now a bit
darker, so emacs looks like something not really fixing there (too
light).
2) Modeline: Our modeline is a kind of relic from other times. With the
same gray color in the terminal and some cryptic information. It also
shows the line but not the column by default and the file status is
somehow in that cryptic initial part I don't think many users understand
very well.
Just adding an * to the filename in modeline (and or tab when using
them) or changing the color is easier to understand. Than -UUU:----F1
You can see all the popular alternatives around.
3) Colors: People prefer higher contrast in general 4 example: in my
system when the region es enabled the default gray color is so light
that I can't see it. Same applies to icon that when enabled or disabled
the difference sometimes is minimal.
Usually blues and green are more attractive to users (that's why MS
decided to use them for their OS). PANTONE448C (a kind of yellow + grey)
is considered the ugliest color ever and our UI and fonts are mostly
grey and yellow-orange.
There has been a long discussion these days about light vs dark
themes... But as you can see all the applications are implementing a
dark mode and people prefer dark today (maybe tomorrow this changes)
4) Right click: (Probably it is the most lacking functionality and
surprising for any user not using the terminal.) Right click is expected
to bring a panel with the most common operations. It is useful, fast
and somehow standard since 1995 while removing most of the needs of the
toolbar which takes precious vertical space.
Extra ide features (we already have but hidden) and are in some editors
around bu default (again I'm not telling we should do the same):
5) sidebar: most code editors have a button somewhere in the interface
to show/hide the sidebar to explore and open files/access symbols or see
open files. That bottom is usually in what we we call modeline or it is
a tight bar on the lest to toggle it on and off quickly. (You find them
in atom, sublime, geany, clion, VSCode). That's why in emacs it is
becoming more and more popular things like neotree.
6) fill-column-indicator, indent-column-indicator,
highlight-all-like-this on mouse double click and idle,
show-parent-mode, show-trailing-whitespaces.
Hope this can help
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-09-11 22:14 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 289+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-09-08 16:02 Changes for emacs 28 TEC
2020-09-08 17:01 ` Yuan Fu
2020-09-08 17:45 ` TEC
2020-09-08 18:15 ` TEC
2020-09-08 19:28 ` tomas
2020-09-08 20:31 ` Ergus
2020-09-08 21:01 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-08 21:45 ` Ergus
2020-09-08 22:14 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-08 22:26 ` Ergus
2020-09-08 21:35 ` Daniel Martín
2020-09-09 16:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-09 16:22 ` T.V Raman
2020-09-09 16:45 ` TEC
2020-09-09 18:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-10 10:47 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-10 17:39 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 17:56 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-10 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 19:48 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-11 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 21:01 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-10 21:21 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-10 21:34 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-10 21:36 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-10 22:19 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 21:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 7:04 ` Philip K.
2020-09-11 7:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 7:44 ` tomas
2020-09-11 10:27 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 12:26 ` tomas
2020-09-11 15:19 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 10:50 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 8:41 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-13 10:30 ` tomas
2020-09-13 10:59 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 11:38 ` tomas
2020-09-13 12:53 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 15:05 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 16:17 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 16:38 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 12:15 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 12:40 ` tomas
2020-09-14 18:45 ` chad
2020-09-15 8:12 ` tomas
2020-09-15 18:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-15 21:17 ` tomas
2020-09-15 20:45 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 21:22 ` tomas
2020-09-15 23:32 ` Alan Third
2020-09-13 14:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 18:05 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-13 18:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 19:17 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-13 19:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 10:30 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 3:36 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 8:45 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-11 19:17 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 8:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 11:00 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 12:50 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 13:23 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 18:29 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-11 19:12 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 19:23 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-11 20:07 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 20:37 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-13 3:59 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 21:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-12 12:40 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 16:28 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 12:24 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-10 22:48 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-12 3:20 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 4:07 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 9:49 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 9:53 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-09-11 21:51 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-11 17:53 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-11 19:09 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-11 21:05 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 21:40 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-12 7:54 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 6:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 9:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 9:19 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-11 13:52 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-11 14:10 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-11 14:26 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-11 10:36 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-11 10:39 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-11 11:20 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 7:49 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 4:07 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 20:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-11 19:17 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 18:44 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 19:34 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 5:11 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-11 5:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-10 18:12 ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-09 19:28 ` tomas
2020-09-09 21:33 ` Howard Melman
2020-09-09 22:19 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-10 11:20 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-10 11:27 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-10 11:57 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-11 4:16 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 4:52 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-11 6:07 ` TEC
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 4:13 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-11 4:14 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-09 16:57 ` Ergus
2020-09-09 17:08 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-09 17:16 ` Ergus
2020-09-09 17:25 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-09 17:34 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-10 9:09 ` "modern" colors " Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-10 10:20 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 10:29 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-10 10:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 11:08 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 12:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 13:17 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 13:55 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-10 14:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 18:40 ` Ergus
2020-09-10 18:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-10 18:58 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 13:15 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-11 13:42 ` Ergus
2020-09-11 14:13 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-11 14:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-11 14:36 ` Iñigo Serna
2020-09-11 22:14 ` Ergus [this message]
2020-09-12 6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-12 9:03 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 9:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-12 10:19 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 17:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 5:51 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-13 14:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 18:40 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-13 4:06 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-12 11:24 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-12 11:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-12 12:41 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 16:29 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 15:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-12 15:43 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 17:25 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 4:06 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-13 8:53 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-14 3:50 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-14 8:08 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-14 9:46 ` Ergus
2020-09-14 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 15:48 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 15:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-12 10:13 ` Iñigo Serna
2020-09-12 11:13 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-12 12:26 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 16:27 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 14:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-12 15:37 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 17:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-12 17:26 ` TEC
[not found] ` <87o8maj1kh.fsf@gmail.com>
2020-09-12 18:27 ` TEC
2020-09-12 19:57 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 5:53 ` TEC
2020-09-12 21:22 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 5:49 ` TEC
2020-09-15 6:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 2:49 ` TEC
2020-09-13 8:00 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 9:04 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-13 10:17 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 14:26 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-13 14:43 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-13 15:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-13 9:16 ` Colin Baxter
2020-09-12 19:46 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 21:22 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 21:22 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 1:14 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-15 6:54 ` toggle-light-dark-mode (was: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28) Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-15 17:51 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Caio Henrique
2020-09-15 19:03 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Juri Linkov
2020-09-15 20:10 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Caio Henrique
2020-09-16 19:31 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Juri Linkov
2020-09-16 20:14 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-09-16 20:32 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Juri Linkov
2020-09-16 20:59 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Stefan Monnier
2020-09-17 14:34 ` toggle-light-dark-mode Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 17:43 ` "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-12 19:53 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 19:59 ` Caio Henrique
2020-09-12 20:09 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 8:07 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-12 20:13 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 16:22 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 16:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-13 19:49 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 20:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 21:43 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 21:45 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 22:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 22:26 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-09-13 21:45 ` Ergus
2020-09-13 22:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-13 22:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-14 14:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 16:45 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-14 17:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-14 17:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 19:47 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-14 20:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-15 7:40 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-15 14:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-15 14:50 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-15 15:51 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-15 16:01 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-15 16:30 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-15 16:05 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-15 16:30 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-15 16:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-15 16:31 ` Yuri Khan
2020-09-15 14:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 14:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 14:47 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-14 16:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 16:35 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-14 14:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-14 16:46 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-13 3:57 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-13 3:57 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-13 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-15 6:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-11 23:29 ` Philip K.
2020-09-12 11:10 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-12 11:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-12 12:46 ` Ergus
2020-09-12 16:24 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-12 13:16 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-12 13:55 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-09-12 14:31 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 0:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-12 14:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-13 0:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-09 3:46 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-09 6:26 ` TEC
2020-09-09 15:43 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-09-12 14:21 "modern" colors " ej32u
2020-09-12 14:21 ej32u
2020-09-12 16:29 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-13 0:36 arthur miller
2020-09-13 0:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-14 3:49 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-14 5:14 ` TEC
2020-09-14 6:35 ` Ergus
2020-09-14 8:18 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-14 9:48 ` Ergus
2020-09-15 4:35 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-14 15:19 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-15 4:44 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-18 13:32 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-18 16:06 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-18 16:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-18 17:14 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-18 18:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-09-18 19:01 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-15 6:38 ` Marcus Harnisch
2020-09-15 15:54 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 1:26 arthur miller
2020-09-13 11:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-13 11:50 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-13 17:29 ` Dmitry Gutov
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