From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 14:57:44 +0200 Message-ID: <20200911125744.x7at74mr4dyrcktf@Ergus> References: <20200910231420.kvqg6ohvxetpup5c@Ergus> <83zh5whl5p.fsf@gnu.org> <83mu1whac7.fsf@gnu.org> <83imckh9yt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft7oh63h.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911121919.5oljwsot4g3bm7zq@Ergus> <83a6xwh4o3.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5757"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 11 14:58:37 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGidR-0001Jt-AZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 14:58:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39594 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGidQ-0000xh-DY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 08:58:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41164) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGico-0000Ve-5M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 08:57:58 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic311-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.131.123]:38023) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGick-0004k2-Rl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 08:57:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1599829072; bh=LQavBQ/SsHgF7j98BQON4Gnu2br+dMNdMDB2ggD/5lo=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=D3lv8ZgS/FrERFglGvGM8Jn0YY+q8PMPm8qBNYA+S9KQTPAtL7VttvBNLLwaC9ZgK4UlJvMyqfQtccN6EtND+8IJXeRaRvvLas0ym8k07CSK7GbKGo4kh0eXAn4cQrERjz7zwEOPgEwGMvu+/lREx+hXNttVj7GnnldDN6l/hfzp9ZJqHJH0cSLDhiRO00mh2mRVz5+MKVmjQCoP+OUbV9rtGN4w6ZNwbepe4iRZPK6giR6AozN5qtrVl8BnHG9vkkXKz2fafhozSCsJ1PaL1Jg2SySiObdVCPmRY2mLSWioIhxBklP6Th3HS4DobXIEwk4qwdqbd1x3NmQEUen3eA== X-YMail-OSG: sFHNh7IVM1mUFW3yADb0xUhNfNxjD2NMpv7AlbBGEJljlDGUTGRMfnIbqof7vPs gJ_1EmI.Q.6LrNT9fwg.LQAm.eiLcGUzEksEcM_SJpzLd0AmxWWJ5_t1nKqJ4QGCdGKX2CeBSGWq .G2kXp_0A1wY_3DwSkyFko0c5oRacNUHjlxwpxXsbNPHD0ebTx_pS3lqO_xydc.NqmbkT06xooGV hBtRAR67q3sH3BEkH8GZmrxWij9HK0g0Jktc.7a0DWGPpQxjB6bIzFTYehVSrZyxvHlNOt3ngBPP s9.dQsYADqiLF_B.8mMGzF_bDPUC9Pttur5FK66C3ymHRMxyBSumQBQ522A3tOYXWY6B9ehkgILT G6tSrwQJxUutVDbRbEH24WNDMqZuLCi1h3F9VKsOHFm.m9_mpzyg3sFwC3B0Hx6pDTySBWsJitLZ VqdVF8JvjXnScVAXPWFqOecWLUXrBGnMjXyEYbAxffPurULKf5bSA6nyDDzWEo.T3jS70mEnXGWt Sc_i47_VSXtx0auMIfGrCaHJX4POa7zeY4xCBOnZNKF4RiRxyRRiTSRDowfw7iOa45C6ef_kq0ZA AxOWZvshHQyjgrJhTWx8Olrf40cAanz9.yxo0_wb1ies01ACHm4Yv4pQoTnYvA7yuQL8UH62YbX4 2zcmsoShl0glcalOwFcveDhKuA0o9tWrJR38DZFscKH51qXsEQUa2Y18yZseNJPBaSZYsWyySCtn 7T41IgBPWa9q1yjwe6VmZSDmm8R7zo95VXuERTmOgyBRgUZmrqcnfU03FYvSjakNwlaUpLeqQCwF 5J0ms7qmwrxlMVVzAdK.N6vMis2lPAlb2afDFxHi1e Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 12:57:52 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp406.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 416266af5e89eff0f1d88d8e061dc3b2; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 12:57:49 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83a6xwh4o3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.131.123; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic311-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/11 06:30:37 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255162 Archived-At: On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 03:35:40PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 14:19:19 +0200 >> From: Ergus >> Cc: Dmitry Gutov , rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, >> drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> Could you reconsider my proposal of an undo-redo-mode to: >> >> - Add the extra icon in the toolbar. > >I believe I already agreed to that. We even had a patch posted for >it, and I commented on it. > I mean conditionally in the mode ;p >> - Change the undo action in menu-bar and tool-bar by undo-only instead. > >We need more opinions for this one. If many people agree to it, I >won't object. > That's why we need the mode. Normally there is not agreement about changes of this kind, so user can set it on demand if they prefer it. >> - Bind undo-redo to something in the keyboard. > >If you can find a good key that is vacant, sure, why not? > C-? and M-_ are generally used in the packages around and they make sense with the current ones. >> - To enable it in some of the proposed user "profiles" > >Since we don't have any profiles yet, this is not something we can do. > >> - Not bother the users that somehow won't like to have all that. > >Having said all of the above, I'm now asking myself (and you) why do >we have to have a special mode for this? None of these measures >contradicts the default operation of undo via C-/, so we could simply >have this by default. > The mode will substitute undo with undo-only. This small contradiction will start a war here. >> Having undo with an undo-redo in the same "state" could be confusing as >> the normal undo could do also redo IMO. > >If the user uses the menus or the tool bar, the confusion will be >spared, right? > If the user expects undo-only behavior; then having our undo will be confusing because not expecting undo becoming a redo at some point. IMO we should have one (undo) or the other (undo-only + undo-edor) but not mix them by default.