From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 20:40:11 +0200 Message-ID: <20200910184011.jqix7cmvr5rohgp4@Ergus> References: <87sgbsb0eb.fsf@gmail.com> <20200909165723.kdnwicwvplmezusr@Ergus> <20200910102000.2t6tsju745xutg7u@Ergus> <20200910110832.ko66gqnqo4l664d6@Ergus> <83ft7pke22.fsf@gnu.org> <20200910131754.vmwb7wl3un7gt36k@Ergus> <834ko5k821.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7688"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 10 20:54:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGRiO-0001t8-0p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 20:54:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51170 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGRiN-0004te-1a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 14:54:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35078) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGRUd-0005ca-49 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 14:40:23 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic313-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.133.124]:43113) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGRUY-0005eu-SU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 14:40:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1599763216; bh=1+nVPIxneppcglH8qHiudMty5zJs5oVFFL5XJiO6tOc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=LpkPclDVsEEJD/VVtIOv2BNJG0MJG1IlvLUcQuMXbnPmYdzs1KRw4KQZ0PfDAq/UODTTG+8iUxsTPG2PDi7d4a9D2/6FIstwm+eJGBMIfyO1UAtVI9rQTRY6c9DRC9Jqelatt70Ol3zmnSXQXiCsJKWPl60e5jONkKMh7KdAwvgeSKu2USEtdEKLKYzqGHjYs7SNWi012hovhqrlDXpOT3PuFNuc1rWXOOXXO7+NNzneVE+iD0WNF9Vng6I0Jd4n6ox2pUwtJBZoi6nKojcGKY9go8K4kH5nsguwjhciIMFSMNJqC/uTLzPJr4s0tl4VA+p9YWAh1Z3xSpgLzkY2bQ== X-YMail-OSG: kFw4WHsVM1ln4l0h6TpH7BVKoeUTq3hBEPGCH_wp4vxgEsKnwmbOsvp39Jjcvjl wluKtIir.gdnB8Ub5zxswOw_d3Bg2mdid6jZii7Nwk5dHUb4WsnpHGkV3t.kXj1nwkFl2kFMCgVn uen_lz2OdunM_.G3rM0koj4NyK5Dtyh4dcJsKNF5UB36NjjJzEf10GJnLfTXovoxR.Xr4iZ7tUMd bSbubQ6eYrtmTgJzfJrbGY.WAQNH.ZcPMOFDAB2II4BW1NW7njwd5ULGzM5yR6yYuyu1BeFRQ7Q1 t7THUIuH2nJaa3_IE0zAxViQwfu6Kw.NMUWHYLGJhBBVLQK8X_qJRiaQ.1kxZei5bVFY8aDsHHj9 0p.BVr4y4LmgB_y5yQWN6ILaw6Fla3eWzZwXNMTQA31iLy_Or.KOvtFyjN3tK83AHxbDm4rAostw Ln3TU5vHcq5DIYNu1OnSYcTekTymgVqms1FzfXBMD96rm3AiO5HC7Xf1.notYd0aPOnZdFJnhnvn 7KjDRY0Bp6xaciKjPFBjRsPHcM8YVj6tO7BGmExt44WJJLrQUWy5U17t4bsPFV5BZODjT_d7xTBS zmRMo94VT2sJV2iKbMs19vq.h7KXwkgcb01L6iasNO217IarJPgT2nLlXgsVf_Q8TqOIcjDH28bE jPApP4upHtHmEPx.2c9xbqau2_KEIX1HjZJCJDEi4IOkOA8yeRoEQEfBotrP45YpmhP.c_rQtdAe X66jcNbFmBfqKXn.JOhetqj3V7UVsJBrNKOgcBR248cjVQ4WeSNGgMcTaHhFjGIsF0YMpvJLy_E. EK7rjq3hbDALzNxY9PTZyjhVIvJETgh.Ak1we2MRD1 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 18:40:16 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp407.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 446f53c478642d6b806e59b4d577ba08; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 18:40:15 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <834ko5k821.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.133.124; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic313-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/10 14:40:16 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255032 Archived-At: On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 05:41:58PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 15:17:54 +0200 >> From: Ergus >> Cc: casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, >> monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, ghe@sdf.org, tecosaur@gmail.com >> >> >If F10 is intercepted, perhaps we should also bind the command to >> >another key? That's a simple and backward-compatible change. >> > >> I have discussed this with Stefan already and there are some small >> backward compatible changes we can do here because usually F10 is >> intercepted by gnome, toggle guake, gnome-terminal menu or tmux before >> arriving to emacs. >> >> Some of the (non exclusive) options are: >> >> 1) Bind it also to another key > >This is what I had in mind. > Of course, this is the first to do in any case. Do you have any binding in mind? >> 2) Show the binding somewhere (in the same bar or modeline) when >> xterm-mouse-mode is disabled. > >I don't see how xterm-mouse-mode is relevant: we are not talking about >the mouse, and TTY menus work without a mouse as well. > Ex: in gnome-terminal (which captures the F10) and with xterm-mouse-mode disabled it is almost impossible to access the menu (unless throw M-x but then the user can type the commands without needing the menubar). So it is there basically stilling space because there is no way to access it. >> 3) Underline the letter in the menus that "opens" each menu from the >> keyboard (as some Windows applications do) > >How will that help? > With a disabled xterm-mouse-mode a first timer user doesn't know how to open the menu-bar, even its name. It will be specially useful to give some hints. Menubar is specially useful for beginners; lets say the fist step to start doing the basics. Being inaccessible gives the same experience than a first time user trying to exit vim. >> 4) Enable xterm-mouse-mode by default in more situations as most of the >> popular terminal emulators are xterm compatible (gnome-term, xterm, >> konsole, rxvt, guake, terminator) > >Again, xterm-mouse-mode is an orthogonal issue. I know. This were general points we mentioned about why some people found useless the menubar and used to remove it.