From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gather a list of confusions beginner tend to have Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 09:57:50 +0200 Message-ID: <20200909075750.GA31381@tuxteam.de> References: <875z8ortot.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18949"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 09:58:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFuzp-0004pR-IY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:58:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50208 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFuzo-0007pt-IA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 03:58:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFuzL-0007Ph-5l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 03:57:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:54544) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFuzI-0001Dw-VZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 03:57:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=ScyYKitpQlIWetqB6puqhCfLs9FyhaelJLeSJp+gZv4=; b=n34q1eVwOdKPa/HlFbjXjGoim6znx4HU9i+w4S5g3N30X7WKQL6Z0jABP1Ap/v1gObt6uL8Jb8nAqszKRN76m1xZVYw5XfqDeCMZGHUP1tyOwvLUu8sDfsfz5+Gs1lARJHqSNzc5AJRwMY/vWHeMsU6cZlscuLh0/bSCXOmIjQVg4Rv+/9vlnzj35c/w2Mg3AaIViVx3Bawn8Tj8ESObvVSDGtg5w7ZTGQ475A9tdT3k9K5thqRzQm7g0vr/T7xCH7UlQ1wDUsd54WElZCQzhCM//mSpE7/CT+cDMYE1Al/Usa8B0rdpNKRuJzEvrPsPbDKqDflk4x/qlr6l5a2LGg==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1kFuzG-00007y-5o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 09:57:50 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/09 03:57:50 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254850 Archived-At: --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 08, 2020 at 04:30:57PM -0500, Praharsh Suryadevara wrote: > Hello, > I've been an emacs user for ~3 years. While I'm now used to the defaults,= I > do remember in some detail, the pain it took me to get used to the > keybindings in vanilla emacs . >=20 > I think the sore points other than the undo/redo, were C-f not being bound > to find [...] But that's it, exactly. I moved to Emacs from vi (later elvis, vim). I /knew/ it was going to be painful, but I never complained `find' wasn't bound to '/'. It's difficult to draw the line between "make more user-friendly" and "do as I am accustomed to". The latter will end up following some trend which, compared to Emacs's longevity, will always be a fad. Witness: CUA. Most people think these days "CUA" means: "Copy" [1] is bound to "C-c", "Cut" [2] is bound to "C-x" and "Paste" [3] to "C-v". But according to IBM's "Common User Architecture" (aka "CUA" [4]), it's "C-Insert", "S-Del", and "S-Ins" respectively. But Apple's [5] infantilised version ("C-x" is the "scissors", etc.) somehow snuck in. Don't get me wrong -- I do recognise value in trying to harmonise user interfaces across applications. But consistency whithin one application and stability over time are also values to be taken into account. In the end, it will be a balance act, with one (or several, that's what distributions are for!) equilibrium points, which themselves vary over time. What Emacs can do is to provide a solid base and all the freedom of configurability. And Emacs does deliver on that. Cheers [1] called in Emacs "kill-ring-save" [2] called in Emacs "kill" [3] "yank", in Emacs [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_User_Access [5] I guess they stole it from Smalltalk, as everything else, too. - t --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAl9Yiv4ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kaa/ACeKAP+vwqehq50kQGpy2m6bp9Z rzEAnjKev8P6v+M1/ZoMwxPY+pPdSH3f =uoJI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cNdxnHkX5QqsyA0e--